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Archives 2008/08

TNRA 29 August 2008

August 29, 2008, part 1 of 1.
Download mp3 » click here

31 August 2008 | Permalink | comments: 4

Categories: [ ]

Tonight we bring you a TNRA exclusive on vaccination and the big brother state.

Last week it was reported in the major media that a Sydney family was on the run from The Department of Community Services and the Police after the Supreme Court issued an order for the the forcible Hep B vaccination of their new-born child.

On the show we have Meryl Dorey, spokesperson for the Australian Vaccination Network. Meryl is currently trying to help the fugitive couple to find legal represention.

Meryl Dorey is a mother of 4 children aged between 12 and 19 years. Her eldest child had several severe reactions to his vaccinations – events which started her on the path to investigating this issue more thoroughly. Through more than 18 years of exhaustive research in medical journals and medical texts, Meryl has come to the conclusion that for a certain proportion of the population, the benefits of vaccination do not outweigh the risks.

In 1994, Meryl combined her energies with a group of parents and health professionals to form the Australian Vaccination Network. The AVN has continued ever since and is dedicated to:

  • ensuring that information on the risks and ineffectiveness of vaccines if made available to anyone seeing it;

  • making sure that vaccination is never made compulsory;

  • pushing for independent peer-reviewed research of vaccination including double-blind studies which have never yet been done.


More Links for tonight's show

Australian Vaccination Network

Compulsory Vaccination - It's here!

Parents on the run with baby after refusing vaccination

Sydney Morning Herald
Kate Benson Medical Reporter
August 23, 2008


A SYDNEY couple was on the run with their two-day-old baby last night after the Department of Community Services took out a Supreme Court order to have the boy vaccinated against hepatitis B.


Sydney parents under vaccination court order were threatened with arrest by hospital staff

The Australian
August 23 2008


A SYDNEY couple are in hiding after the Department of Community Services (DoCS) took out a court order to have their three-day-old boy vaccinated against hepatitis B.


Please contact Meryl Dorey at www.avn.org.au for more information about vaccination and your rights.

Thanks for listening!

Hereward & Josh

‘9/11 Truth’ activists march through Denver

29 August 2008 | Permalink | comments: 0

Categories: [ 9/11 Truth Movement ]

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/911_Truth_activists_march_through_Denver_0827.html

08/27/2008 @ 10:39 am
Filed by Nick Juliano

911 Truth Protest, Denver August 2008DENVER -- Around 100 activists convinced that the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001 were perpetrated by dark and mysterious actors within the US government marched across the city Tuesday in a sanctioned protest that resulted in no confrontations with police.

Members of the so-called "9/11 Truth" movement gathered outside Denver's city hall proceeding to snake through cordoned off streets towards the Pepsi Center, where the Democratic National Convention is being held this week. Radio host Alex Jones, who runs the conspiracy theory Web site infowars.com and is a leader of the movement led demonstrators in chants of "9/11 was and inside job" and "Down with the New World Order."

Denver police on bicycles preceded the marchers through an empty street just outside of downtown. Few Democratic delegates saw the protesters as they marched -- a goal the parade route seemed designed to achieve.

Along with the activists, the march included a mock parade float. Labeled "God's Gitmo," it displayed protesters wearing masks depicting George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Condoleeza Rice, John McCain and Barack Obama locked up behind a chain-link fence.

The march never got very close to the Pepsi Center itelf, which was surrounded by a security perimeter more than two blocks from the main entrance, but it did snake past a back entrance to the security perimeter around 2 p.m., when a scattering of delegates, reporters and other guests were arriving to the convention.

Stopping outside the gates, Jones and the marchers outlined their view that the 9/11 attacks were a "false flag" operation carried out by the US government for the sake of starting wars in the Middle East. At least a dozen police in riot gear stood guard near the outer entrance to the convention site, but the protesters had no intention of causing trouble. They moved on after about 15 minutes.

"That was the most organized anarchy I've ever seen," remarked one woman standing inside the security fences.

Moving on from the convention site entrance, the protesters decided to break up their march rather than continue into the designated free speech zone tucked off a corner of the convention site. The area's been dubbed the "freedom cage" by activists in town to protest the conventions.

The demonstrators reconvened near Denver's union station later Tuesday afternoon and set up behind the MSNBC set that had been erected nearby. They waved signs and chanted while Hardball was broadcast.

The show's host seemed at best bemused by the display. At one point during a commercial break, Matthews stepped to the edge of the set and seemed to taunt the demonstrators, making a "you're crazy" gesture circling his finger around his ear.

9/11 Truth Movement: Let’s Focus on Building 7

25 August 2008 | Permalink | comments: 0

Categories: [ 9/11 Truth Movement ]

George Washington's Blog
Saturday, August 23, 2008

The government has handed us a golden opportunity.

By admitting that building 7 was not severely structurally damaged by debris falling from the Twin Towers, by admitting that diesel stored in the building was not what caused the building to collapse, and by ridiculously claiming that thermal expansion caused the first collapse of a modern steel-framed high-rise in history because of some "new phenomenon" that hasn't been taken into account before, NIST has set itself up for easy rebuttal.

And unlike the Twin Towers, which involved fancy top-down special effects, the destruction of WTC 7 looked like a classic demolition. Anyone who is shown a clip of 7 and a controlled demolition will see the perfect similarity.

Even polls at AOL and other mainstream sites show that the public isn't buying NIST's explanation.

So even if you believe that directed energy weapons, nuclear bombs or little green men brought down the Twin Towers, can you please put that aside for a little while?

If we don't focus on building 7, its stunning parallel to known controlled demolitions, and the obvious misrepresentations by NIST about why 7 collapsed, we are hurting and distracting the momentum towards truth and justice.

This is not to say that thermite, rdx or other methods weren't also used in building 7, in addition to more old-fashion methods. But the destruction of wtc 7 looks so "normal" by controlled demolition standards that any mention of directed energy weapons is not only not necessary, but it is hugely counter-productive.

Also, I don't believe directed energy weapons or nukes were used on 9/11. But my suggestion in this essay is separate and apart from my belief, and focuses on what will be most effective to spread truth to the public.

And I am not saying that we should ignore foreknowledge and warnings, protection of patsies, wire transfers, put options, stand downs and Norad's shifting stories, Cheney saying "the order still stands", Zelikow's myth-making role on the 9/11 Commission, or any of the numerous other facts showing that 9/11 was intentionally allowed, aided and abetted by elements within the U.S. government and defense industry.

What I am saying is that we should focus on the best evidence . . . and WTC 7 and NIST's weak excuse are some of the best evidence. And WTC 7 is getting alot of attention right now, right on the heels of the FBI's lame explanation for the anthrax attacks, the fake Iraq-9/11 memo, Cheney wanting to create a false incident to start a war with Iran, Bush wanting to paint a plane then shoot it down to justify the Iraq war, and other instances of deception by the government. NIST's shallow explanation of building 7 is part of this torrent of obvious government lies leaking out at this time. Let's use it (in a couple of months, some other aspect of 9/11 will probably take focus . . . but for now, building 7 is uniquely timely).

Finally, no, I am not the leader of the 9/11 truth movement. Indeed, I don't even really believe in having leaders. My philosophy is "the best idea wins", and I don't care whether it is your idea, my idea or someone else's idea.

If you agree with this essay, please follow it. If you don't, that's fine . . . but please explain why not.

TNRA 22 August 2008

August 22, 2008, part 1 of 1.
Download mp3 » click here

24 August 2008 | Permalink | comments: 41
By Hereward Fenton

Categories: [ 9/11 Truth Movement, NIST, WTC7 ]

On tonight's show we present in in-depth analysis of the NIST WTC 7 Investigation, with engineer and registered member of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 TruthJohn Bursill.

Information relevant to tonight's show:

Former Chief of NIST's Fire Science Division Calls for Independent Review of World Trade Center Investigation

AE911Truth Press Conference 8/21/08 Response to NIST Final Report on WTC 7

NIST Press Release


Report and Recommendations for Improving Building Safety Released for Comment
August 21, 2008 | Related Documents

Shyam Sunder, NIST lead investigator

GAITHERSBURG, Md.—The fall of the 47-story World Trade Center building 7 (WTC 7) in New York City late in the afternoon of Sept. 11, 2001, was primarily due to fires, the Commerce Department’s National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) announced today following an extensive, three-year scientific and technical building and fire safety investigation. This was the first known instance of fire causing the total collapse of a tall building, the agency stated as it released for public comment its WTC investigation report and 13 recommendations for improving building and fire safety.

“Our study found that the fires in WTC 7, which were uncontrolled but otherwise similar to fires experienced in other tall buildings, caused an extraordinary event,” said NIST WTC Lead Investigator Shyam Sunder. “Heating of floor beams and girders caused a critical support column to fail, initiating a fire-induced progressive collapse that brought the building down.”

NIST WTC 7 Investigation Finds Building Fires Caused Collapse

23 August 2008 | Permalink | comments: 0

Categories: [ 9/11 Truth Movement ]

http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/wtc082108.html

Report and Recommendations for Improving Building Safety Released for Comment
August 21, 2008 | Related Documents 

Shyam Sunder, NIST lead investigator

GAITHERSBURG, Md.—The fall of the 47-story World Trade Center building 7 (WTC 7) in New York City late in the afternoon of Sept. 11, 2001, was primarily due to fires, the Commerce Department’s National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) announced today following an extensive, three-year scientific and technical building and fire safety investigation. This was the first known instance of fire causing the total collapse of a tall building, the agency stated as it released for public comment its WTC investigation report and 13 recommendations for improving building and fire safety.

“Our study found that the fires in WTC 7, which were uncontrolled but otherwise similar to fires experienced in other tall buildings, caused an extraordinary event,” said NIST WTC Lead Investigator Shyam Sunder. “Heating of floor beams and girders caused a critical support column to fail, initiating a fire-induced progressive collapse that brought the building down.”

“Video and photographic evidence combined with detailed computer simulations show that neither explosives nor fuel oil fires played a role in the collapse of WTC 7,” Sunder said. The NIST investigation team also determined that other elements of the building’s construction—namely trusses, girders and cantilever overhangs that were used to transfer loads from the building superstructure to the columns of the electric substation (over which WTC 7 was constructed) and foundation below—did not play a significant role in the collapse.

According to the report, a key factor leading to the eventual collapse of WTC 7 was thermal expansion of long-span floor systems at temperatures “hundreds of degrees below those typically considered in current practice for fire resistance ratings." WTC 7 used a structural system design in widespread use.

Video -The collapse of World Trade Center 7

Citing its one new recommendation (the other 12 are reiterated from the previously completed investigation of the World Trade Center towers, WTC 1 and 2), the NIST investigation team said that “while the partial or total collapse of a tall building due to fires is a rare event, we strongly urge building owners, operators and designers to evaluate buildings to ensure the adequate fire performance of the structural system. Of particular concern are the effects of thermal expansion in buildings with one or more of the following features: long-span floor systems, connections not designed for thermal effects, asymmetric floor framing and/or composite floor systems.” Engineers, the team said, should be able to design cost-effective fixes to address any areas of concern identified by such evaluations.

The investigators also reported that if the city water main had not been cut by the collapse of World Trade Center towers 1 and 2 (WTC 1 and WTC 2), operating sprinklers in WTC 7 would likely have prevented its collapse. “Nevertheless,” Sunder said, “we recommend that building standards and codes be strengthened beyond their current intent to achieve life safety by preventing structural collapse even during severe fires like this one, when sprinklers do not function, do not exist or are overwhelmed by fire.”

Sunder identified several existing, emerging or even anticipated capabilities that could have helped prevent WTC 7’s collapse. He cautioned that the degree to which these capabilities improve performance remains to be evaluated. Possible options for developing cost-effective fixes include:

  • More robust connections and framing systems to better resist effects of thermal expansion on the structural system.
     
    Structural systems expressly designed to prevent progressive collapse, which is the spread of local damage from a single initiating event, from element to element, eventually resulting in the collapse of an entire structure or a disproportionately large part of it. Current model building codes do not require that buildings be designed to resist progressive collapse.
  • Better thermal insulation (i.e., reduced conductivity and/or increased thickness) to limit heating of structural steel and to minimize both thermal expansion and weakening effects. Insulation has been used to protect steel strength, but it could be used to maintain a lower temperature in the steel framing to limit thermal expansion.
  • Improved compartmentation in tenant areas to limit the spread of fires.
  • Thermally resistant window assemblies to limit breakage, reduce air supply and retard fire growth.

 

The 12 recommendations reiterated from the WTC towers investigation address several areas, including specific improvements to building standards, codes and practices; changes to, or the establishment of, evacuation and emergency response procedures; and research and other appropriate actions needed to help prevent future building failures.

Determining the probable collapse sequence for WTC 7, NIST found that the impact of debris from the collapse of WTC 1 ignited fires on at least 10 floors of WTC 7, and the fires burned out of control on six lower floors. The heat from these uncontrolled fires caused thermal expansion of the steel beams on the lower floors of the east side of WTC 7, damaging the floor framing on multiple floors. Eventually, a girder on Floor 13 lost its connection to a critical interior column that provided support for the long floor spans on the east side of the building. The displaced girder and other local fire-induced damage caused Floor 13 to collapse, beginning a cascade of floor failures down to the fifth floor. Many of these floors had already been at least partially weakened by the fires in the vicinity of the critical column. This collapse of floors left the critical column unsupported over nine stories.

“When this critical column buckled due to lack of floor supports, it was the first domino in the chain,” Sunder explained. “What followed in rapid succession was a progression of structural failures. Failure first occurred all the way to the roof line—involving all three interior columns on the most eastern side of the building. Then, progressing from east to west across WTC 7, all of the columns in the core of the building failed. Finally, the entire façade collapsed.”

drawing showing locations of columns of typical WTC 7 floor

Diagram 1—Typical WTC 7 floor showing locations of columns (numbered). The buckling of Column 79 was the initiating event that led to the collapse of WTC 7. The buckling resulted from fire-induced damage to floors around Column 79, failure of the girder between Columns 44 and 79, and cascading floor failures. [Download high-res version]

The investigation team considered the possibility of other factors playing a role in the collapse of WTC 7, including the possible use of explosives, fires fed by the fuel supply tanks in and under the building, and damage from the falling debris of WTC 1.

The team said that the smallest blast event capable of crippling the critical column would have produced a “sound level of 130 to 140 decibels at a distance of half a mile,” yet no noise this loud was reported by witnesses or recorded on videos.

As for fuel fires, the team found that they could not have been sustained long enough, could not have generated sufficient heat to fail a critical column, and/or would have produced “large amounts of visible smoke” from Floors 5 and 6, which was not observed.

Finally, the report notes that “while debris impact from the collapse of WTC 1 initiated fires in WTC 7, the resulting structural damage had little effect in causing the collapse of WTC 7.”

The investigation team found that the design of WTC 7 was generally consistent with the New York City building code in effect at the time. The estimated 4,000 occupants of WTC 7 on the morning of Sept. 11 were evacuated without any fatalities or serious injuries.

To reach the conclusions in its report, NIST complemented its in-house expertise with private-sector technical experts; accumulated an extensive collection of documents, photographs and videos related to the WTC events of 9/11; conducted first-person interviews of WTC 7 occupants and emergency responders; analyzed the evacuation and emergency response operations in and around WTC 7; and performed the most complex computer simulations ever conducted to model a building’s response behavior and determine its collapse sequence due to a combination of debris impact damage, fires and a progression of structural failures from local fire-induced damage to collapse initiation, and, ultimately, to global collapse.

NIST welcomes comments on the draft report and recommendations—available online at http://wtc.nist.gov—received by noon Eastern Daylight Time on Sept.15, 2008. Comments (instructions for submission are available at http://wtc.nist.gov) may be submitted via:

    * e-mail to wtc@nist.gov;
    * fax to (301) 869-6275; or
    * surface mail to WTC Technical Information Repository, Attn: Stephen Cauffman, NIST, 100 Bureau Dr., Stop 8611, Gaithersburg, Md. 20899-8610.

The NIST investigation of WTC 7 was conducted under the National Construction Safety Team (NCST) Act, as part of its overall building and fire safety investigation of the World Trade Center disaster. The act gives NIST the responsibility for conducting fact-finding investigations of building failures that resulted in substantial loss of life or that posed significant potential of substantial loss of life. NIST has no regulatory authority under the NCST Act.

As an agency of the U.S. Department of Commerce, NIST promotes U.S. innovation and industrial competitiveness by advancing measurement science, standards and technology in ways that enhance economic security and improve our quality of life.

NIST to Release Report and Recommendations from Investigation of World Trade Center Building 7

20 August 2008 | Permalink | comments: 0

Categories: [ 9/11 Truth Movement ]

Agency Will Hold Public Webcast on August 21
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/calmed/wtc_081808.html

NIST - National Institute of Standards and Technology

Gaithersburg, Md. -- The Commerce Department's National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) will hold a media briefing and live public webcast on Aug. 21, 2008, in Gaithersburg, Md., on the findings and recommendations from its building and fire safety investigation of the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 (WTC 7). WTC 7 was a 47-story building that fell nearly seven hours after the World Trade Center (WTC) towers collapsed following the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

The NIST WTC 7 report will present the probable collapse sequence for the building and will provide recommendations for improving building and fire safety in other buildings similar to WTC 7. The draft WTC 7 investigation report released at the briefing will be open for public comment through noon Eastern Daylight Time on Sept. 15, 2008.

Shyam Sunder, director of the NIST Building and Fire Research Laboratory and lead investigator for the federal building and fire safety investigation of the World Trade Center disaster, will present the report and answer questions from reporters at the briefing. The public will be able to view the briefing through a live webcast that will be accessible from NIST's WTC Web site at http://wtc.nist.gov

What: A media briefing and public webcast on the findings and recommendations of the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) report on the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 (WTC 7).
When: Thursday, Aug. 21, 2008 11 a.m. - Noon Eastern Daylight Time
Web Info : The WTC investigation Web site at http://wtc.nist.gov will contain links to the webcast as well as accompanying materials such as the full report, news release, and accompanying visuals at the time of the briefing.
Reporters: Credentialed journalists who wish to register for the media briefing should contact Ben Stein, (301) 975-3097, ben.stein@nist.gov

Video: Sydney Truth Action - 11 August 2008

19 August 2008 | Permalink | comments: 0

Categories: [ 9/11 Truth Movement ]

11th August - a bright, crisp winter's day in Sydney.

As always the encounter with passers by was interesting, informative and very worthwhile.

For information about public events planned for September 2008, please visit this page: http://www.911oz.com/weblogid/168

Enjoy!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sczZLSybs_s

Four Principles of Disinformation

16 August 2008 | Permalink | comments: 0

Categories: [ 9/11 Truth Movement ]

After several years reading and studying, I have come to the realisation that there are some key principles to the art of disinformation, and that these principles need to be understood in order to ultimately defeat it.

1. Disinfo is a weapon
This is often the hardest principle to grasp and it is also the most important. Disinfo is, and always has been, a tactic used in war. When it is used in "apparent peacetime" it is still a weapon of war, for war encompasses far more than just bullets and bombs. Disinformation is indeed one of the most important tools in the military arsenal.

2. Disinfo is aimed at a designated enemy
This principle follows naturally from the first. Disinfo is rarely omni-directional or generic - in order to work at all it must have a vector. As with conventional weapons, this vector is in the direction of the group/individual designated as enemy. When directed at an individual, disinformation is often used as part of a scam - think of the Nigerian chain letter or those emails telling you that you have won the lottery.

In the case of the internet scam the goal is to rob the enemy/victim, but the basic tactic is more or less the same when conning a citizen into supporting a war based on a false flag terrorist attack, only in this case the concept of "enemy" must be expanded to include both the citizen and the perceived external enemy.

3. Disinfo succeeds by disguise.

Since disinfo is rooted in deception, it must be disguised as something other than disinfo in order to fulfill its function. Conversely, once disinfo is exposed it no longer "works" to the same degree. An example of this might be the disinfo claim that "no plane" hit the WTC on September 11.

This claim works as disinfo only to the extent that most people believe that the view is genuinely believed by those who promote it. If, by contrast, it could be proven that the "no plane" theory was concocted in by the CIA in Langley Virginia, then it would lose its effectiveness. Perhaps surprisingly, the observation that the "WTC no plane" theory is flawed does not neutralise it as disinfo, since it is quite common for people to believe things in good faith which turn out to be false. In order for the disinfo to be fully neutralised it must be exposed as a deliberate reverse propaganda operation orchestrated for the purpose of weakening a designated enemy.

4. Disinfo sews division and confusion in the enemy
As a weapon, effective disinfo has the combined effect of creating/exacerbating division and confusion in the enemy. This, of course, weakens the enemy, which is the military objective. As an example of how disinfo weakens and divides, let us return again to the "no plane hit the WTC" proposition. To start with, this proposition potentially has the effect of creating a schism within the 9/11 movement. It also has the effect of creating confusion or the perception of confusion when mixed up with the quite distinct proposition that "no plane hit the Pentagon".

The latter proposition, although controversial, is not (in the writer's opinion) to be discarded, for the simple reason that the authorites have refused to release the video which would prove their case. But, the "no plane hit the WTC" proposition unfortunately gets conflated with the "no plane hit the Pentagon" proposition, creating a fog of confusion which may lead the uneducated outsider to conclude that all alternative theories are crazy. This of course achieves the goal of weakening the enemy (ie. the people's movement seeking truth about 9/11).

I hope you found this exposition of four principles of disinformation helpful.

Hitler, the big lie and 9/11

14 August 2008 | Permalink | comments: 0

Categories: [ 9/11 Truth Movement ]

"... in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie..."

(Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, p.134)

The above quote explains many things about why the official 9/11 conspiracy theory is not investigated or questioned even by those who in other situations would sieze on any opportunity to attack the status quo.

Perhaps Hitler was merely describing how cognitive dissonance coupled with extreme violence works in the favour of power elites.

Possibly this stategy of violence + deceit exploits a deep instinctive mechanism which humans have evolved in order to preserve group cohesion: when your tribe is attacked you rally around your leader - for good or ill.

An interview with Glen Clancy (Fool Me Twice)

08 August 2008 | Permalink | comments: 0

Categories: [ 9/11 Truth Movement ]

Download mp3 » click here

On 1st August Truth News Radio Australia interviewed Glen Clancy, creator of the film Fool Me Twice, which explores evidence that the 2002 Bali Bombings were orchestrated by intelligence operatives, while the governments of Australia and Indonesia looked the other way.

During the interview we get into an interesting discussion of the physics of the explosions which devastated a large area of Kuta Beach, and the coverup of vital information such as the alteration of flight log data at Bali's International airport.

We also examine the Howard Government's willful deceptions in regard to the East Timorese independence campaign which led to many deaths, culminating in the Australian led military intervention (INTERFET) in 1999.

Glen currently lives and works in Japan, but he is planning to return to Australia soon. We look forward to his next project.

Fool Me Twice is a must see film, and you can watch the whole production for free on Google Video.

Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 > 

Listen Live

Recent Comments

Moderate Muslims:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=253_1412566275

By Eugene Donnini on 2014 10 31 - 20:28:52
From the entry 'A review of violence and intolerance in Islamic and other societies'.

fenton, i didnt say i didnt want to engage in rational debate, i said i wasnt interested in engaging with an obviously mendacious shill. i have been neither dictatorial, nor abusive, and as far as failure to prove anything goes, ignoring evidence does not mean evidence has not been provided, nor proof been established.

you have certainly not proven by any stretch of the imagination, that chemtrails are imaginary, and the concern of thousands of credible experts worldwide is without justification.

may i suggest if you can not prove what you are asserting, that you also take a hearty sip yourself. have a shitty day.

By Andrew Adams on 2014 10 31 - 15:33:15
From the entry 'Contrails dissipate quickly whereas chemtrails linger?'.

The onus of proof is on those promoting geoengineering (David Keith, etc.Ken Caldera) to prove that what they say about the spraying, i.e. that it is a proposal, not a global reality, is true. That follows from the precautionary principle.

By W, Hall on 2014 10 31 - 15:10:14
From the entry 'Contrails dissipate quickly whereas chemtrails linger?'.

As admin of this site I feel I need to step in here. Andrew, if you do not not want to engage in discussion and debate that’s fine, however you have absolutely no right to tell anybody to “STFU”.

I have provided a comment section to encourage free discussion and debate. Your dictatorial and abusive tone merely demonstrates your failure to prove anything.

Since you don’t want to engage in rational debate may I suggest that you refrain from posting here?

Have a nice day!

By Hereward Fenton on 2014 10 31 - 14:52:32
From the entry 'Contrails dissipate quickly whereas chemtrails linger?'.

@ lumpen josh
what part of “I have no interest in hearing anything else you have to say, ” is too hard for you to understand?
I do not have to justify anything to you, i dont have to point you to anything, i dont have to engage you in any sort of conversation here because you have proven yourself to be of no credibility, a nonsensical bore.

nothing you can say can prove that chemtrails are a figment of the imagination of highly qualified credible people worldwide, so how about just taking a big gulp from the mug of STFU and stop pretending you are some sort of authoritive arbiter on anything.

By Andrew Adams on 2014 10 31 - 14:08:25
From the entry 'Contrails dissipate quickly whereas chemtrails linger?'.

First off i applaud you for seeking facts rather that resorting to slander as i have all too commonly seen among alternate media. On that note i would like to make known some experiments the Australian government was carrying out! My grandfather was an aircraft maintenance technician many years ago. He obsessively tells me of an experiment they carried out where dry ice was shoveled into a modified chute into the clouds. He claimed they were at the aircraft altitude ceiling and the dry ice would cause the clouds to drop their water. He claimed they were wearing oxygen masks to breathe!

By Stephen on 2014 10 29 - 14:39:09
From the entry 'Chemtrails brownshirts renew threats against TNRA'.

Andrew Adams,

‘looking up’ does not tell you much about atmospheric physics. You can’t see that the air gets cooler with increasing altitude and decreasing density. You can’t see the wildly varying relative humidity, the pockets of ice supersaturation or the jet streams.
It takes knowledge and measurements to understand and make predictions. That’s what meteorologists and atmospheric scientists are there for, after all.

Regarding the notorious “Case Orange” text - supposedly compiled by an anonymous group of people - it is not even coming close to a peer-reviewed scientific paper. It piles up a lot of conjecture together with well-meaning statements that everybody can subscribe to. It also constantly mixes up contrails, cloud seeding and low-altitude chemical dispersion which are entirely unrelated things.

Can you point me to the best evidence in this text for the claim that persistant contrails are deliberately mixed with spraying material, as part of “large-scale geoengineering projects through commercial aviation”? I can’t find any.

What do you think is the single most important fact that supports the theory that persistant contrails are not just ice crystals? I am ready to be convinced if it stands up to scrutiny.

By Josh on 2014 10 28 - 09:51:35
From the entry 'Contrails dissipate quickly whereas chemtrails linger?'.

ankara travestileri ankara travestileri ,travesti zuhalin kişisel resim galeri haberler günün sözü icerik ankaradakitravestiler.com

By Ankara Travestileri on 2014 10 28 - 05:01:25
From the entry 'Meet Brendon O'Connell, Australia's first political prisoner'.

Josh
Pardon me iff I dont take you seriously. Chemtrails or if you like, persistant contrails, are nothing new. To suggest that because something is “exotic” means that it is hypothetical, shows your disingenuousness or your stupidity, or both.. Ive learnt long ago not to trust unqualified anonymous numpties on the internet who say things like, “Still no evidence that persistent contrails are anything but.” when all one needs to do to discredit that nonesense is to be in possession of a functioning cognisant ability, and to look up.  If thats not enough, there is plenty of scientific proof also. that shows chemtrails are actually not that exotic at all, that they have been used for decades for various purposes. It is all documented. I have no interest in hearing anything else you have to say, you have said it all, countless times already in this post. You really should get yourself a hobby, maybe go outside once in a while, unless youre scared.

By Andrew Adams on 2014 10 27 - 09:47:55
From the entry 'Contrails dissipate quickly whereas chemtrails linger?'.

Andrew Adams,

two remarks in reply to your post:

1. The “British academic” is David Lim, a former PhD candidate at University of Reading, his subject “Construction Management and Engineering”. His field of research included urban/domestic energy concepts, like in this project.

He has dropped out in 2013 after getting involved with the chemtrail conspiracy theory (and others). He now calls himself an “independent researcher”, but unfortunately he is obviously just reurgitating some long debunked mainstream claims of the chemtrail community, like the one you quoted.


2. The original text of H.R. 2977 was written by Alfred Webre, Carol Rosin and others from the ‘Institute for Cooperation in Space’ (ICIS).

The term ‘chemtrails’ is listed under the category ‘exotic’, along with other hypothetical weapons like ultrasonic, tectonic or psychotronic ones (see original text).

Dennis Kucinich removed these ‘exotic weapons’ in a second version of the bill. It seems he hadn’t scrutinized the first version properly. He said “When I found out that was in there, I said, ‘Look, I’m not interested in going there.’” (Reference : Ohio Newspaper “The Plain Dealer”, 2003-03-12)

Carol Rosin later commented on the modification: “This bill will only ban space-based weapons and the use of weapons to destroy or damage objects in space that are in orbit. It is NOT a bill to ban chemtrails and/or psychotronics or mind control devises or any specific weapons listed in the category of definitions in the original bill.” (Reference)

So that’s all there is to it. Apparently, you can write anything into a congressional bill; there is no obligation for reality checks (unlike with scientific papers).

Still no evidence that persistent contrails are anything but.

By Josh on 2014 10 26 - 21:38:41
From the entry 'Contrails dissipate quickly whereas chemtrails linger?'.

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