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Contrails dissipate quickly whereas chemtrails linger?

13 May 2012
0 Comments

By Hereward Fenton

Categories: [ Chemtrails ]

Contrails over London in 1944

Vapour trails left by British bombers on route to attack flying-bomb sites encircle the dome of St. Paul's Cathedral. London, 1944.

All those who passionately believe that "contrails dissipate quickly" whereas "chemtrails linger" and are deeply offended by the sceptical position that TNRA takes in regard to these claims, are free to "unlike" Truth News.

If, on the other hand, you would like to engage in rational debate, you're most welcome to do so.

However, please be advised that the information I have to impart may be shocking and difficult to grasp if you have been a "chemtrail alarmist" for a long time.

The often cited claim that "normal contrails dissipate quickly" is total bunkum.

There is not a shred of science to backup that claim.  Nothing, nada, zippo!

Those who promote this idea are simply repeating something they read on a web page without checking sources.


 

CONTRAIL SCIENCE

For a contrail to form, suitable conditions must occur immediately behind a jet engine in the expanding engine exhaust plume. A contrail will form if, as the exhaust gases cool and mix with surrounding air, the humidity becomes high enough (or, equivalently, the air temperature becomes low enough) for liquid water to condense on particles and form liquid droplets. If the local air is cold enough, these newly formed droplets then freeze and form ice particles that make up a contrail.

Because the basic processes are very well understood, contrail formation for a given aircraft flight can be accurately predicted if atmospheric temperature and humidity conditions are known.

After the initial formation of ice, a contrail evolves in one of two ways. If the humidity is low, the contrail will be short-lived. Newly formed ice particles will quickly evaporate. The resulting contrail will extend only a short distance behind the aircraft. If the humidity is high, the contrail will be persistent. Newly formed ice particles will continue to grow in size by taking water from the surrounding atmosphere. The resulting line-shaped contrail extends for large distances behind an aircraft. Persistent contrails can last for hours while growing to several kilometers in width and 200 to 400 meters in height. Contrails spread because of air turbulence created by the passage of aircraft, differences in wind speed along the flight track, and possibly through effects of solar heating.

Thus, the surrounding atmosphere’s conditions determine to a large extent whether or not a contrail will form after an aircraft’s passage, and how it evolves. Other factors that influence contrail formation include engine fuel efficiency, which affects the amount of heat and water emitted in the exhaust plume.
- source

TNRA is informed by science and is not interested in propping up anyone's belief systems, and we don't apologise for that.

But, please, don't take it from me, speak to any meteorologist or any pilot and they'll tell you straight, that there is HUGE variation in the length and persistence of contrails. Sometimes they don't form at all, other times they form, but disspate quickly, other times they persist and spread out.

That's the facts folks, and it's been that way since planes first went up in the sky.

If you believe otherwise, I'm afraid you've been conned.

Forgive me if I seem rude or impatient on this topic, but every few months I come across a new wave of people who have been subjected to the same false propaganda about chemtrails, and I have to run the same arguments and cite the same articles over and over again. It does wear one's patience down.

Before making some kind of angry reply, I urge you to read this article and associated links. It's fairly detailed, and deals with most of the usual claims made by chemtrail alarmists.

Finally, let me qualify all this by saying that I do not doubt that geo-engineering programs exist, and that, indeed, some of the patented techniques discussed at international forums  include the creation of artificial cirrus cloud. Does this, however, entitle you to conclude that every spreading contrail you see is an example of such geo-engineering?

Think about it.

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Comments

Please review the Terms of Service before reading or responding to comments.

Wayne Hall, I asked you for evidence of a moratorium breach. If you have it, why don’t you just provide it? Why should I have to contact people? I did not make the claim, you did.

Just write what you found out. Can’t be too hard.

Also, I am waiting for evidence of anything sinister going on in the skies. Not that I have great hopes.

By Josh on 2012 06 04 - 05:08:38

I already indicated that I do not propose to have any contact I may have with ETC predicated on your agenda, precisely because they owe whatever progress they have made to avoiding getting trapped in your agenda, as everyone else on this planet is trapped.

It is the same agenda as that purveyed by the promoters of the official 911 conspiracy theory. Perhaps the 911 Truth movement needs to find a “realpolitical” structural equivalent of the ETC group to get you out of the ghetto into which you have painted yourself.

Would you like to make a claim that you have not painted yourself into a ghetto???  Then I could ask you to prove it.

 

By Wayne Hall on 2012 06 04 - 11:02:17

Wayne Hall, I’m sorry to say that your writing ceases to make any sense ...

By Josh on 2012 06 04 - 13:02:27

If you don’t understand what I am saying, perhaps others will and the discussion will be able to continue.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 06 04 - 21:52:02

@ Josh “Citing Youtube videos is not very convincing. “

the video showed a contrail dissappearing very quickly.

if youre not convinced - i did suggest you could simply look up.


the fact that some contrails do dissappear quickly, does not rule out contrails that can linger. the fact that some contrails linger, does not rule out chemtrails.

the fact that you took a gliders exam is not very convincing and does not make you qualified to tell me what i am or are not seeing.

By Unliked on 2012 06 06 - 11:44:48

Unliked,
if you accept that contrails can linger and spread - how can you “see” a chemtrail? What is the difference to a contrail?

“Seeing” without knowledge does not mean much. Millions of people were convinced that the Earth is flat. They could “see” this. It was obvious.

By Josh on 2012 06 06 - 13:13:34

Unliked, are you really interested in this contrail vs chemtrail discussion? Do you regard it as a useful subject for debate?

By Wayne Hall on 2012 06 06 - 13:34:31

Whats to debate?

http://www.consciousnessbeyondchemtrails.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdsVXiVFLYM

i could add a hundred links,, i could post my own photos and videos…

we could debate until the cows come home.. but to what end? neither you or i are qualified to put this matter to rest once and for all - beyond all reasonable doubt…

there are many credible people who have concerns about chemtrails..

of course i believe it should be debated, but not here,,  id more prefer a public forum with experts from all sides, in some sort of official capacity, where any findindings can be acted upon..

where do you stand on the issue mr Hall.. and what qualifications do you bring to the table?

By Unliked on 2012 06 06 - 18:49:34

@ josh..

the differences?

the differences being, i live in a remote area.. we might be under the flight path of major airlines.. in one direction only..

i am in a position where i may observe the whole sky.. from horizon to horizon every day.. i see commuter aircraft pass by.. regularly.. leaving normal looking contrails..

and then on othe r days, i see planes covering the whole sky.. in criss cross formations, from horizon to horizon.. where none of the trails dissappear, they all spread out, until they form an overcast ‘cloud” where the planes fly low enough for particulates to fall noticably from the sky.. where i know im breathing this shit.. and i know how it makes me feel.. thats the bloody difference.. thanks for caring.

youre not the only one who knows the different names of clouds..
but when youre being sprayed, like they do here, theres no doubt.

By Unliked on 2012 06 06 - 18:55:19

Unliked: the proposals to spray aerosols into the atmosphere (sometimes into the stratosphere, sometimes into the troposphere) for “geoengineering” purposes have their origins in US nuclear weapons laboratories, among scientists who assimilated Cold War modes of thought and habits of being secretive, disingenuous and deceitful in their behaviour towards outsiders. Their habits are consciously or unconsciously imitated by the very large numbers of professional and amateur hangers-on that involve themselves in most internet discussions of this question. The resultant discussions are usually degrading for participants on both sides: on the “official” side because they involve politicization and debasement of what should be the honesty and integrity of science; on the “oppositional” side because they often testify to naivety. This discussion between purported “critical insider” Alan Robock and street activists                              
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNrkp6a_6As&NR=1
is typical.

Personally I don’t think it is worth arguing with anybody who wants to dispute the existence of aerosol spraying from aircraft. It is in any case not necessary because a moratorium has been agreed on this activity, so that the only question is why it is not being implemented.

Chemtrails debunkers like Josh who ask for evidence that this moratorium is not being respected should direct any relevant queries to the lobbyists who achieved the moratorium, the ETC group.

It is not appropriate for chemtrails activists to ask these questions of the ETC group because chemtrails activists in any case rely on the evidence of their senses, i.e. what they see with their eyes, and do not need to ask for confirmation of the obvious from manipulative and cunning lobbyists against geoengineering who owe their achievements precisely to the lip-service they pay to prescribed mythologies.

To answer your questions about me: I do not have any relevant formal qualifications, but have been engaged with this issue for nearly ten years. I am the co-ordinator of the Greek website “Enouranois” and recently made a documentary of the same name:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBAOCC3W0Dk&annotation_id=annotation_437164&src_vid=U68iFCxQrSE&feature=iv

By Wayne Hall on 2012 06 06 - 19:42:04

Thankyou for your pithy reply mr hall
i look forward to checking out your website, and i want to let you know i appreciate your efforts in bringing to peoples attention what i believe to be a very significant issue.

By Unliked on 2012 06 06 - 22:07:22

I just came across this blog. Hmmmmm. It is clear that some of the wild theories abounding about contrails and “chemtrails” need to be put to bed, if that is possible. With 14,000 hours in the skies over some 40 odd years, and with an Airline Transport Pilot Licence having flown in a number of countries,and having had to pass the Meteorology examinations in a number of countries including Canada, I think I can put forward reasoned explanations. I have made contrails and flown through my colleagues contrails. The first thing we need to understand is that contrails do not expand. The reason being the simple explanation that ambient conditions have to be right for contrails to form and no aircraft engines add anything to the atmosphere as they pass on their way that could possibly cause any change other than a temporary alteration to temperature. The minuscule amount of water expressed from turbine fuel through combustion is not even worth mentioning. The air that passes through a hot engine, piston or turbine, does not delete the water that exists in the surrounding atmosphere, it merely heats it, turns it to steam and it is condensed back to water vapour as soon as it exits the exhaust or jet pipe. As the temperatures at the altitudes where contrails occur are below freezing, we get ice crystals from the condensing water vapour. Hence we get a trail of ice crystals behind the exhausts which may last for a few minutes or longer depending upon the humidity of the air mass being flown through. The only thing that has changed is the temporary increase in temperature and as can be appreciated at freezing temperatures such a rise in temperature is fleeting. If the ambient conditions were such that an increase in humidity occurred we would get cloud as it is the cooling of water that causes cloud/fog. Cloud is only fog at altitude, fog is only cloud near ground level. No amount of flying can generate sufficient humidity to form cloud and that is what the proponents of “lingering” contrails claim happens. Anybody who has performed high altitude aerobatics in a jet fighter can tell you that it is possible to do a loop at 40,000 and fly through your own slipstream at the bottom and find your contrail has disappeared. You can also fly a steep turn horizontally and fly through your own slipstream and find your contrail disappearing a short distance behind your aircraft. It depends upon the ambient conditions at the time. There would be cloud if the conditions were such that “lingering” contrails persisted and you would not see the contrails because they would form part of the cloud you would be flying through. You could also note that sky writers eject chemicals to form their words in the sky and they disappear rapidly with the wind and persist for short periods of time only if there is light or no wind. Please note that contrails only appear over Eastern Australia in winter in the eastern dry season, and over Western Australia in the winter, as temperatures and conditions are not conducive to contrails in other seasons, yet we see chemtrails in summer in the east during the wet season whenever there is a likelihood of rain. How come? the proponents need to explain how we get aircraft flying over Brisbane emitting chemtrails at and below 10,000 feet AMSL.

By Leonard Clampett on 2012 06 11 - 14:55:44

Are you at all familiar with the “geoengineering” discussion, Leonard Clampett, or is contrails/chemtrails all you can talk about?

By Wayne Hall on 2012 06 11 - 18:25:20

Leonard Clampett,
from your first-hand experience, would you confirm that the number of contrails has increased during the last 20 years or so?

Many “chemtrailers” claim that this is the case, and I wonder if this part of the story may in fact be true, due to the increase in air traffic and probably due to jet engines burning more efficiently.

From my memory, I couldn’t tell ...

By Josh on 2012 06 11 - 23:39:41

The seminal text to consider in the chemtrails/geoengineering debate is this one:
http://www.hoover.org/publications/hoover-digest/article/6791

The geoengineering scenario came from the same minds as those who propelled us into the nuclear arms race by allowing Klaus Fuchs, Ted Hall and others to leak “secrets” to the Soviets, (who then copied the design for the Nagasaki bomb and started making these things in the USSR), and then executed the Rosenbergs for doing what they had actually done themselves.

The geoengineering scenario came from the same mind as the scenario presented to Gorbachev in Reykjavik, where Reagan said that he would agree to the US and the USSR destroying all their nuclear weapons if the Soviets would consent to the US going ahead with the SDI (Star Wars) plan for an anti-missile system to shoot down Soviet nuclear weapons.

These people decided that they would like to get the world talking about the differences between contrails and chemtrails at the same time that they embarked on the plan outlined by Teller in the text above, a plan for solving a “problem” he thought (or said he thought)probably did not exist.

The contrails/chemtrails debate is a little like the Osama Bin Laden debate, the 11th September 2001 debate, the Soviet nuclear threat debate of the 50s to 80s.

Do you really think I want to talk about it just because someone at Los Alamos or Lawrence Livermore thinks that this is a suitable subject to get the plebs arguing about?

Read what the ETC group has to say on these matters. They don’t tell the truth bout “chemtrails” but at least they focus the debate on worthwhile subjects.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 06 12 - 01:56:53

To Wayne Hall,

“Are you at all familiar with the “geoengineering” discussion, Leonard Clampett, or is contrails/chemtrails all you can talk about?”

Thank you for your rather rude response. The geoengineering you write of has been around for many decades. The HAARP system has been built up and we now have seven HAARP sites across the planet. These are used to alter weather and are a weapons device created by the US military/industrial complex. The US has an agenda to dominate and run the world and are working toward a war free time when by creating either drought, floods or earthquakes they can bring any country to its knees. You may have seen the many photographs available on the Internet showing unusual cloud formations which are clearly not a natural phenomena. I have a couple which were taken on Saturday the 9th of June 2012 showing what can only be geoengineering at work, taken at the Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia as demonstrated by the tower at “Wet and Wild” near MovieWorld. A pity I cannot upload it to this Blog site, but anybody interested can e-mail me for a copy at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
Make no mistake, there are contrails, which are, as originally called, “vapour trails” caused by water condensation and freezing, and there are “chemtrails” which are man-made sprays created for use in conjunction with the HAARP system for weather modification and other devious designs. The contrails seen over England and Europe during the second world war were vapour trails left by high altitude supercharged piston engine aircraft which had not flown at those kind of altitudes prior and the ambient conditions in that area were ideal for the formation of contrails. There has been a proliferation of contrails over the last few decades due to the increase in air traffic and no amount of engine technology causing better combustion will diminish contrails because they are a result of ambient conditions which includes the amount of water vapour in whatever parcel of air is being flown through. There has been a proliferation of chemtrails over the past couple of decades as more and more are sprayed. no amount of denial from authorities can refute the fact that chemtrails are sprayed on a regular basis all over the planet. Observation and analysis proves that beyond doubt.

By Leonard Clampett on 2012 06 21 - 08:57:50

Dear Leonard Clampett,

Thank you for your reply. I see you are quite familiar with the facts and this could be enlightening for Josh, whose last posting you also answered.

Pardon me for being indiscreet, but given that you know quite well the realities of this subject, why in your first post did you describe as “wild theories” the facts about “chemtrails” which you then stated yourself?  “there are “chemtrails” which are man-made sprays created for use in conjunction with the HAARP system for weather modification and other devious designs.”

The only point I would take you up on is the idea that HAARP foreshadows a “war free” world.  It seems that the type of war waged by HAARP, which is illegal under the ENMOD Treaty of 1976 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_Modification_Convention
is meant to supplement other kinds of war, not replace them.

The United States does not acknowledge that HAARP is a weapons system but the European Parliament has described it as such and condemned it:
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+REPORT+A4-1999-0005+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN

However, precisely because of the military status of HAARP, the European Commission has said that it has no authority to act on the recommendations of the above report. So much for European sovereignty.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 06 21 - 11:33:17

Leonard Clampett said:

“No amount of flying can generate sufficient humidity to form cloud and that is what the proponents of “lingering” contrails claim happens.”

No, they don’t. Even the ice crystals in a persistant contrail are consisting mainly of water that was present in the air already. See “supersaturation with respect to ice”.

Clouds do evolve, with trails or without. Why should a contrail not give the initial push for clouds to develop if the relative humidity is high enough?

By Josh on 2012 06 21 - 18:22:20

Is your objective to generate clouds in this discussion, Leonard Clampett?

(There is nothing like flogging a dead horse with a red herring.)

By Wayne Hall on 2012 06 21 - 18:28:47

and heres a video of “clouds” being turned on and off..

Josh thinks stuff like this is perfectly natural…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnWO5KT8IhI

By Unliked on 2012 07 01 - 13:11:51

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RECLAIM AUSTRALIA IS DOOMED

Although I agree with many of their ideas, the forces reigned against RAM are too great, violent, statist and reactionary for them to remain a non-political, broad based, multi-ethnic, community protest group for much longer. The Left and their Antifa nihilist fellow travelers are already pushing them towards the extreme Right, by calling them racists and Islamophobes and so on. Whilst the extreme Right have aligned themselves with RAM. With fascists of the Left and Right pressuring them they will not be able to remain beyond the Left-Right divide and will inevitably move to the Right - the extreme Right. Which is already happening. A development which will alienate decent Australians of all ethnic backgrounds many of whom currently support them. 

The RAM leadership have already established open alliances with the Patriotic Front (the ape in the photograph is a Patriot Front supporter at a recent Richmond demonstration) Australia First and Golden Dawn, a Greek neo-Nazi party. Members of these collectivist groups are currently attending RAM demonstrations all over Australia.

There is a real need in Australia to establish a political movement beyond the Left-Right divide and their vested interests, a movement that questions the current direction Australia is heading i.e. the direction the Left/Right and their extremes would like to take it; that questions the efficacy of state sponsored multiculturalism, as opposed to a proper, non-discriminatory immigration policy; that questions the validity of political correctness; that is politically neutral, anti-war and pro environment; that is opposed to all collectivists ideologies (fascisms of the Left and Right); that would dismantle the power pyramids of corporations and banks and their ability to impact on government; that would dissolve all anti-terror laws and all laws that impose on the rights and freedom of the individual and the people.   

(The ape in the photograph is a Patriot Front supporter at a recent Richmond demonstration)

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/reclaim-australia-rally-set-for-sydney-on-sunday-20150718-gifb9s.html

http://australiafirstparty.net/news/reclaiming-australia-queensland-senate-campaign/

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I second Keith’s assertion that Mike Holt from Restore Australia is very much a fake.  He bangs on about Halaal being a scam and money maker for Islam (and no I don’t support Halaal whatsoever), but makes excuses for its counterpart Kosher as being a somehow legitimate.  Double standards?  When I confronted him about this fact he went off on a convoluted tirade about Israel being some sort of “Bastion of Democracy” in the middle east…Really!, I will leave that one up to the readers to decide on.  I found that MH came across as disingenuous to say the least.

By Citizen Scorn on 2015 07 19 - 07:33:43
From the entry 'Restore Australia!'.

Without doubt, TNR is one of the best, if not the best alternative news source on the net. Which doesn’t mean Herewood is always right. His job, I believe, is to present the facts as he sees them as an objectively as possible, without fear or favor.  For this, he has my respect and support. But I believe he needs to be careful and to think a little deeper about the problems of “racism,” in Australia. He has labelled the Reclaim Australia Movement as racist. I’m wondering if his objectivity is a little weak on this point, a little without foundation.

Of course all political movements have its fringe groups and individuals. We make a distinction between, for example, a Muslim and a fundamentalist Muslim (Islamist), and by so doing we don’t claim that all Muslims are blood thirsty fanatics. If its good for the Muslims, then its good for RAM, which is bound to attract a few lunatics and real racists. But to brand the entire movement as “racist” is wrong; it is the same ploy that is used by the mainstream media and its left-wing, establishment Marxist boot boys.

One of the first things I noticed when i attended a RAM rally recently were the amount of non-white people in attendance, including Aboriginals. In fact the main banner of RAM contains an Australian flag and an Aboriginal flag. Speakers at their rallies have included Jews, Arabs, Indians, Aboriginals, Chinese and so on. What does this tell you? Is this really a fascist-Nazi-racist movement whose stated aim are the eradication and exclusion of other cultures, in place of some sort of Aussie white Reich, or is this just propaganda that is being propagated by the left for their own political interests. Consequently, we all know where the culmination of their politics have led, historically speaking, which are to the imposition of terror and dictatorships.

We can be thankful for small mercies, in terms of the Left, which today mostly tends to attract collectivists, establishmentarians and the privileged sons and daughters of the upper bourgeoisie, who seems to share one thing in common, nativity….

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Mike Holt from Restore Australia is very much a fake.  He hasn’t even been citizen for but a few years.  But, he makes out like he was born there.  ALSO - this guy spent 30 years in Thailand working shady businesses.  I would wager that his primary purpose in being an activist is that he wants to make money off selling merchandise.

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good to see you putting out some new shows heraward

freely the banana girl is to a certain extent a troll, as is her boyfriend durian rider. they have been trolling the fitness community on youtube for some time… and yes they are extreme but they are also trolls. They use their trolling to spread their message. currently, another dude called vegangains is trolling the fitness community as well.

i am a vegetarian, and it was seeing this documentary on the pork industry that started me on the vegetarian path. for anyone interested, its pretty off the charts disturbing and its australian as well. its pretty much made by dudes breaking into pork farms and filming what they find

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KArL5YjaL5U

Would the world be better if people cared where their food came from? probably, they might then care about other things too

do you become a better person if you dont eat meat? i feel like a better person mainly because animals aren’t being hurt because of me. i dont feel humans have to eat meat really… or at least not much. How can you watch that documentary on pork, know that that is pretty much whats going on and turn a blind eye to it? I think its basic empathy and just saying well ‘i like bacon so yeah’ is in my opinion wrong and i can see freleys point of view to an extent. In my opinion, at least these people believe in something. i see my money as my vote, henceforth im ethical as to what i do with it. free range eggs became mainstream for exactly this reason… although im pretty sure woolies and coles lobbied the state to change the definition of the word ‘free range’ at some point. I dont eat beef because the amount of resources that go into growing a cow are pretty crazy. Think about how much grass that cow needs to eat before it is harvested and how much space it requires. think of how many vegies you could grow in the same space with the same amount of water. lamb? comon, think about what your doing here… but that being said i think most vegans are total loons. People like freeley should be advocating for the destruction of lions and tigers, as lions and tigers murder other animals in truly horrific style. if we humans are smart enough to not harm animals, then we should be stopping the animals that harm other animals from existing. Freeley also kills birds when she flies in aeroplanes so she is a hypocrite.

feminism is one of the biggest problems in society today and although there is some valid historical basis to it, the liberation of the human female from their biology is in my opinion largely a product of the technological advance of humans. sufferagettes where never machine gunned on the streets, unlike the men that where drafted and sent off to war to die just a few years earlier. as technology has advanced, women have advanced as well, however now its going way too far and is pretty blatantly anti male in many respects. i view feminism in its modern context as a tool of the social marxists that really isnt doing society a great deal of good at this time. its screwing up gender dynamics and is wrecking women and men for each other. i see it as low frequency, lowest common denominator idiocy, just like a lot of the the race baiting ‘is this racist’ stuff getting around that is being perpetuated pretty much as a distraction, divide and conquer strategy by the power elite. idiots love this kind of bicker and beef… it would be funny if it wasn’t so serious

anyway

I agree with steven friar. gods a maniac

good show… keep making them

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Really truthfull.

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Yeah sure authority aware.

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Stay tuned for more rules here as usually is the case!!!

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Almost two months since the last broadcast! How the hell can you expect people to donate when you don’t broadcast? Looks like the ship of truth has sprung a leak. This broadcast has been part of my life almost since its inception…it is one of the few alternative news sources that hasn’t gone off the deep end, by dilution credible information with crap e.g. Fairdinkum Radio and Info Wars…Pittard started FR with some incredibly interesting material, but then he flipped…Today he sounds like a fundamentalist preacher, the Christian equivalent to a Fanatical Islamist. As an atheist, I think he’s really ###### up a potentially good show. As for Info Wars, all they would have to do to improve is dump Alex Jones, what a shit-for-brains. I reckon Jones and Pittard are allowed to proliferate, because they’re so stupid and harmless. I suppose they have some entertainment value, and along with David Icke are living examples of how low the alternative media has sunk. Truth News Radio is, or should I say was, way ahead of them all ahead of them all in terms of credibility How sad that its come to this.

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