Contrails dissipate quickly whereas chemtrails linger?

Categories: [ Chemtrails ]

Contrails over London in 1944

Vapour trails left by British bombers on route to attack flying-bomb sites encircle the dome of St. Paul's Cathedral. London, 1944.

All those who passionately believe that "contrails dissipate quickly" whereas "chemtrails linger" and are deeply offended by the sceptical position that TNRA takes in regard to these claims, are free to "unlike" Truth News.

If, on the other hand, you would like to engage in rational debate, you're most welcome to do so.

However, please be advised that the information I have to impart may be shocking and difficult to grasp if you have been a "chemtrail alarmist" for a long time.

The often cited claim that "normal contrails dissipate quickly" is total bunkum.

There is not a shred of science to backup that claim. Nothing, nada, zippo!

Those who promote this idea are simply repeating something they read on a web page without checking sources.

CONTRAIL SCIENCE

For a contrail to form, suitable conditions must occur immediately behind a jet engine in the expanding engine exhaust plume. A contrail will form if, as the exhaust gases cool and mix with surrounding air, the humidity becomes high enough (or, equivalently, the air temperature becomes low enough) for liquid water to condense on particles and form liquid droplets. If the local air is cold enough, these newly formed droplets then freeze and form ice particles that make up a contrail.

Because the basic processes are very well understood, contrail formation for a given aircraft flight can be accurately predicted if atmospheric temperature and humidity conditions are known.

After the initial formation of ice, a contrail evolves in one of two ways. If the humidity is low, the contrail will be short-lived. Newly formed ice particles will quickly evaporate. The resulting contrail will extend only a short distance behind the aircraft. If the humidity is high, the contrail will be persistent. Newly formed ice particles will continue to grow in size by taking water from the surrounding atmosphere. The resulting line-shaped contrail extends for large distances behind an aircraft. Persistent contrails can last for hours while growing to several kilometers in width and 200 to 400 meters in height. Contrails spread because of air turbulence created by the passage of aircraft, differences in wind speed along the flight track, and possibly through effects of solar heating.

Thus, the surrounding atmosphere’s conditions determine to a large extent whether or not a contrail will form after an aircraft’s passage, and how it evolves. Other factors that influence contrail formation include engine fuel efficiency, which affects the amount of heat and water emitted in the exhaust plume.
- source

TNRA is informed by science and is not interested in propping up anyone's belief systems, and we don't apologise for that.

But, please, don't take it from me, speak to any meteorologist or any pilot and they'll tell you straight, that there is HUGE variation in the length and persistence of contrails. Sometimes they don't form at all, other times they form, but disspate quickly, other times they persist and spread out.

That's the facts folks, and it's been that way since planes first went up in the sky.

If you believe otherwise, I'm afraid you've been conned.

Forgive me if I seem rude or impatient on this topic, but every few months I come across a new wave of people who have been subjected to the same false propaganda about chemtrails, and I have to run the same arguments and cite the same articles over and over again. It does wear one's patience down.

Before making some kind of angry reply, I urge you to read this article and associated links. It's fairly detailed, and deals with most of the usual claims made by chemtrail alarmists.

Finally, let me qualify all this by saying that I do not doubt that geo-engineering programs exist, and that, indeed, some of the patented techniques discussed at international forums include the creation of artificial cirrus cloud. Does this, however, entitle you to conclude that every spreading contrail you see is an example of such geo-engineering?

Think about it.

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Wayne,

I don’t really know what to make of the above, except to say that Robert and I share the same goal, to end the controversy in a definitive way, the difference being we both expect a different result.

To that end I have been attempting to suggest means of attaining a sample of a trail, which I regard as the crucial piece of evidence. My reference to spectroscopy was speculative, as I do not know much about the capabilities of such a technique, but it may be a cheaper and more scientific method than some of the alternatives, which include renting a jet to sample a trail directly.

The cheapest method may be simply flying inside a commercial jet on days when trails are evident, and taking appropriate control samples of the cabin air when out of the trail and some when inside it. The downside of such a test is that it may be very hit or miss, subject to contamination from other passengers,(perfumes, deodorants and such) and proving the trail of evidence was not tampered with, to the satisfaction of a judge.

These are the issues I have been talking to Robert and the group about. That and making sure that if someone posts a video regarding aviation, that a critical eye is run over it from someone with a bit of expertise in that area.

Mike

By Mike Glynn on 2012 07 11 - 10:58:04

Dr. Nikos Katsaros of the Democritos research centre in Athens had discussions with Cypriot parliamentarians and officials and an agreement was reached to proceed with some kind of test like those we have been discussing. But the idea hasn’t gone ahead. Perhaps we should make an attempt to link up the stalled Cyprus initiative with what Robert and collaborators are trying to do. I will talk to some of the relevant people and report back.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 07 11 - 11:13:17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfSm6uIRMOk&feature=plcp

By Wayne Hall on 2012 07 11 - 11:45:33

Robert says that he will talk with John, the inventor of the HARC device, this week, about the proposal.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 07 12 - 12:00:36

Yes, while the HARC is promising, the group better get the appropriate approvals before using it. Pilots, ATC and various security organisations tend to get a bit upset about un-notified rockets being fired into controlled airspace.

That said I am fairly certain that the approvals could be gained under specific circumstances.

By Mike Glynn on 2012 07 12 - 12:26:00

If I decide to operate a toxic chemicals and substance disposal company I can be reassured to know I can simply put the waste into barrels and have the barrels put on planes with tubing attached to the wings and spray it all over the planet and poison people and entire cities and wilderness areas and the oceans and nobody can do anything to stop me.
That easy!

By orion on 2012 07 12 - 14:56:25

This is the first I hear of this explanation.

But apparently considerations like this played a role in the adoption of depleted uranium for “military” use. So who knows?

By Wayne Hall on 2012 07 12 - 15:13:12

orion said:

“I can simply put the waste into barrels and have the barrels put on planes with tubing attached to the wings and spray it all over the planet”

You probably can. Simple it is not.

Anyway, do you have indication that someone is actually doing this?
If so, I hope you don’t point me to the well known flight test pictures with the water barrels inside the fuselage ...

By Josh on 2012 07 12 - 17:18:18

Yes, apparently that water barrels picture is a “red herring”. At least so I am told, by someone I can believe.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 07 12 - 17:27:16

Here are some remarks from a correspondent who mistakenly thought that I wanted him to express an opinion on Hereward Fenton’s initial article.

Please let’s not get involved in sterile wrangling again on the basis of what he says:

You do not honestly take this obvious crap for real? In 1944 the most common British bomber was the Avro Lancaster with 4 propeller engines.

No contrails! There were no jet engine bombers with the RAF in 1944.

So either, this photo is not photoshopped and is really made in 1944 and then the question is what made those persistemt stripes but certainly not bombers, or this is a bad prank.

And like I already said, who needs scientific proof that contrails dissipate quickly, if all the world has been witnessing that for 7 decades? There is no scientific proof either that an emotion called ‘love’ exists. So he who has never been in love could argue that such an emotion does not exist. But would anyone take him seriously?

This guy is an idiot. Life is too short to spend your time arguing with idiots. Anyone looking at the sky every once and awhile knows that persistent trails are something new and did not occur before in our skies. That is a fact without the need for any scientific proof because it is common knowledge. I bet this guy calls his father ‘dad’ without having any scientific proof of that. But that doesn’t bother him.

So maybe he should spend some time studying the definition of ‘consequential behavior’? As an investigative journalist, I wrote an article on machine parts technology at the SNECMA plant on the Brussels (Zaventem) airport site. Snecma is a daughter of the SAFRAN group specializing in the maintenance and repair of the Boeing 737 CFM56-7B turbofan engines. The head engineer gave me a tour of the site and outside we saw these persistent trails in the sky. I asked him about them and he admitted that the normal contrails dissipate after maximum five minutes. He said he could not explain this phenomenon and admitted that he never gave it any attention. He promised to look into the matter and let me know if he found any answers. He never said that persistent trails were normal. But he was absolutely sure that no additives were added to the kerosene. Their engine warranty would automatically become void. It would take an international law to admit aviation companies to change the fuel formula in their planes. This engineer is not a nobody. If he says that these persistent trails cannot come from an additive in the kerosene, then I believe him. It has to be something else. And I want to know what.

I cannot continue his argument and as I have explained my approach to this subject starts from different assumptions anyway.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 07 12 - 22:22:56

So, Wayne Hall,

you let others speak for you to avoid entering the discussion yourself?
Don’t you think that looks sort of - strange?
You don’t even give a name or a reference to that “journalist”.

Regarding the issue: did anyone claim the trails over London were caused by jet planes? I don’t think so, but please point me to the post where it says otherwise.

No trails from propeller planes? Why not? They are burning fuel, exhausting water and carbondioxide, and just need some cold air to create trails.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfOrez6q7WM

You said you have gone through it all and are on a higher level now. So why are you heating up these old, smelly, long debunked claims?

By Josh on 2012 07 12 - 23:23:30

Yes, a good point. I apologize.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 07 12 - 23:33:19

Wayne Hall,

reading my previous post again, it sounds pretty reprimanding. I should not have chosen that tone. So I am sorry as well.

The facts are standing though.

Annother thing about that ‘head engineer’ in the reported dialog:
“He said he could not explain this phenomenon [persistant trail] and admitted that he never gave it any attention”.

This does not indicate that the man is somehow an expert on contrails. It’s not his job after all.
His statements regarding trails are worth as much as anyone’s.

By Josh on 2012 07 13 - 02:01:16

The idea I put forward of possible interest in Cyprus in the HARC device is not being supported by Dr Nikos Katsaros, who thinks that testing could be done more simply. Of course I can continue talking to people in Cyprus but Nikos Katsaros has been the key link person with them. On the other hand the HARC inventor Ed Chiarini has been in touch. Perhaps he could find interest for his device among some of the people planning to attend the “Consciousness beyond Chemtrails” event in LA. The attitudes of the journalist I quoted above are however fairly prevalent among chemtrails activists, and they are in fact my attitude also. But many of the young Athens chemtrails activists are responding positively to the HARC idea.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 07 13 - 12:14:57

Can I say that as a pilot I was generally unaware of the detailed mechanics behind contrails until recently. Being accused of poisoning my own family/country tends to focus the mind somewhat.

By Mike Glynn on 2012 07 14 - 06:44:39

In this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzW5Kb8u0Og&feature=player_embedded
Sofia Smallstorm puts forward the thesis that the Transhumanists
http://groupspaces.com/oxfordtranshumanists/
who she alleges support the spraying programmes as a means of introducing nanoparticles into the human body, actually see these processes as something that are to the benefit of humanity.

And they would naturally be supported in their project by corporations whose focus is on profit, their own expansion and the growth of their power.

Morgellons in this analysis is a condition affecting a minority whose bodies for some reason are rejecting the introduction of the nanoparticles that is proceeding with everybody.

Geoengineering is another purpose that can be enlisted to justify the spraying, after suitable preparation of public opinion by ecologists who themselves may not support geoengineering ideas but can identify “problems” for which geoengineering can then be portrayed as a solution.

To return to the HARC testing, which is our point of convergence, any other ideas for how it could be arranged for such testing to be carried out, in a way that will be accepted by “authorities” as legitimate, is welcome.

By Wayne Hall. on 2012 07 14 - 12:38:26

Is anyone in Australia planning to organize a public screening of the webcast from the Consciousness Beyond Chemtrails conference?

By Wayne Hall on 2012 07 16 - 23:30:43

We are going to screen it here.

By Wayne Hall on 2012 07 17 - 16:05:36

http://www.examiner.com/video/michael-murphy-and-vinny-eastwood-discuss-why-the-world-are-they-spraying

By Wayne Hall on 2012 07 20 - 21:35:12

So, Wayne Hall,

plenty of promotion, but no discussion?

Well, I can do that:
http://metabunk.org/threads/645-Debunked-Why-In-The-World-Are-They-Spraying-Wingtip-Fuel-Dump-Photo

Regarding persistent contrails:
http://metabunk.org/threads/658-A-Challenge-to-Chemtrail-Believers-Explain-this-1969-Issue-of-Popular-Science

By Josh on 2012 07 20 - 22:58:47

Page 6 of 55 pages ‹ First < 4 5 6 7 8 > Last ›

RECLAIM AUSTRALIA IS DOOMED

Although I agree with many of their ideas, the forces reigned against RAM are too great, violent, statist and reactionary for them to remain a non-political, broad based, multi-ethnic, community protest group for much longer. The Left and their Antifa nihilist fellow travelers are already pushing them towards the extreme Right, by calling them racists and Islamophobes and so on. Whilst the extreme Right have aligned themselves with RAM. With fascists of the Left and Right pressuring them they will not be able to remain beyond the Left-Right divide and will inevitably move to the Right - the extreme Right. Which is already happening. A development which will alienate decent Australians of all ethnic backgrounds many of whom currently support them.

The RAM leadership have already established open alliances with the Patriotic Front (the ape in the photograph is a Patriot Front supporter at a recent Richmond demonstration) Australia First and Golden Dawn, a Greek neo-Nazi party. Members of these collectivist groups are currently attending RAM demonstrations all over Australia.

There is a real need in Australia to establish a political movement beyond the Left-Right divide and their vested interests, a movement that questions the current direction Australia is heading i.e. the direction the Left/Right and their extremes would like to take it; that questions the efficacy of state sponsored multiculturalism, as opposed to a proper, non-discriminatory immigration policy; that questions the validity of political correctness; that is politically neutral, anti-war and pro environment; that is opposed to all collectivists ideologies (fascisms of the Left and Right); that would dismantle the power pyramids of corporations and banks and their ability to impact on government; that would dissolve all anti-terror laws and all laws that impose on the rights and freedom of the individual and the people.

(The ape in the photograph is a Patriot Front supporter at a recent Richmond demonstration)

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/reclaim-australia-rally-set-for-sydney-on-sunday-20150718-gifb9s.html

http://australiafirstparty.net/news/reclaiming-australia-queensland-senate-campaign/

By Eugene Donnini on 2015 07 26 - 15:36:56
From the entry 'Dylann Roof: soldier in a new race war or just a pawn in the game?'.

Hello there I am so thrilled I found your web site, I really found you by error, while I was searching on Digg for something else, Anyways I am here now and would just like to say thanks for a incredible post and a all round thrilling blog (I also love the theme/design), I don韙 have time to go through it all at the minute but I have bookmarked it and also included your RSS feeds, so when I have time I will be back to read a lot more, Please do keep up the great work.

By Prova a Adidas Neutro Originals Nizza Nero Giallo on 2015 07 20 - 08:41:30
From the entry 'Statism, the greater good and the big lie'.

I second Keith’s assertion that Mike Holt from Restore Australia is very much a fake. He bangs on about Halaal being a scam and money maker for Islam (and no I don’t support Halaal whatsoever), but makes excuses for its counterpart Kosher as being a somehow legitimate. Double standards? When I confronted him about this fact he went off on a convoluted tirade about Israel being some sort of “Bastion of Democracy” in the middle east…Really!, I will leave that one up to the readers to decide on. I found that MH came across as disingenuous to say the least.

By Citizen Scorn on 2015 07 19 - 07:33:43
From the entry 'Restore Australia!'.

Without doubt, TNR is one of the best, if not the best alternative news source on the net. Which doesn’t mean Herewood is always right. His job, I believe, is to present the facts as he sees them as an objectively as possible, without fear or favor. For this, he has my respect and support. But I believe he needs to be careful and to think a little deeper about the problems of “racism,” in Australia. He has labelled the Reclaim Australia Movement as racist. I’m wondering if his objectivity is a little weak on this point, a little without foundation.

Of course all political movements have its fringe groups and individuals. We make a distinction between, for example, a Muslim and a fundamentalist Muslim (Islamist), and by so doing we don’t claim that all Muslims are blood thirsty fanatics. If its good for the Muslims, then its good for RAM, which is bound to attract a few lunatics and real racists. But to brand the entire movement as “racist” is wrong; it is the same ploy that is used by the mainstream media and its left-wing, establishment Marxist boot boys.

One of the first things I noticed when i attended a RAM rally recently were the amount of non-white people in attendance, including Aboriginals. In fact the main banner of RAM contains an Australian flag and an Aboriginal flag. Speakers at their rallies have included Jews, Arabs, Indians, Aboriginals, Chinese and so on. What does this tell you? Is this really a fascist-Nazi-racist movement whose stated aim are the eradication and exclusion of other cultures, in place of some sort of Aussie white Reich, or is this just propaganda that is being propagated by the left for their own political interests. Consequently, we all know where the culmination of their politics have led, historically speaking, which are to the imposition of terror and dictatorships.

We can be thankful for small mercies, in terms of the Left, which today mostly tends to attract collectivists, establishmentarians and the privileged sons and daughters of the upper bourgeoisie, who seems to share one thing in common, nativity….

By Eugene on 2015 07 18 - 16:03:54
From the entry 'Dylann Roof: soldier in a new race war or just a pawn in the game?'.

Mike Holt from Restore Australia is very much a fake. He hasn’t even been citizen for but a few years. But, he makes out like he was born there. ALSO - this guy spent 30 years in Thailand working shady businesses. I would wager that his primary purpose in being an activist is that he wants to make money off selling merchandise.

By Keith on 2015 07 17 - 20:51:15
From the entry 'Restore Australia!'.

good to see you putting out some new shows heraward

freely the banana girl is to a certain extent a troll, as is her boyfriend durian rider. they have been trolling the fitness community on youtube for some time… and yes they are extreme but they are also trolls. They use their trolling to spread their message. currently, another dude called vegangains is trolling the fitness community as well.

i am a vegetarian, and it was seeing this documentary on the pork industry that started me on the vegetarian path. for anyone interested, its pretty off the charts disturbing and its australian as well. its pretty much made by dudes breaking into pork farms and filming what they find

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KArL5YjaL5U

Would the world be better if people cared where their food came from? probably, they might then care about other things too

do you become a better person if you dont eat meat? i feel like a better person mainly because animals aren’t being hurt because of me. i dont feel humans have to eat meat really… or at least not much. How can you watch that documentary on pork, know that that is pretty much whats going on and turn a blind eye to it? I think its basic empathy and just saying well ‘i like bacon so yeah’ is in my opinion wrong and i can see freleys point of view to an extent. In my opinion, at least these people believe in something. i see my money as my vote, henceforth im ethical as to what i do with it. free range eggs became mainstream for exactly this reason… although im pretty sure woolies and coles lobbied the state to change the definition of the word ‘free range’ at some point. I dont eat beef because the amount of resources that go into growing a cow are pretty crazy. Think about how much grass that cow needs to eat before it is harvested and how much space it requires. think of how many vegies you could grow in the same space with the same amount of water. lamb? comon, think about what your doing here… but that being said i think most vegans are total loons. People like freeley should be advocating for the destruction of lions and tigers, as lions and tigers murder other animals in truly horrific style. if we humans are smart enough to not harm animals, then we should be stopping the animals that harm other animals from existing. Freeley also kills birds when she flies in aeroplanes so she is a hypocrite.

feminism is one of the biggest problems in society today and although there is some valid historical basis to it, the liberation of the human female from their biology is in my opinion largely a product of the technological advance of humans. sufferagettes where never machine gunned on the streets, unlike the men that where drafted and sent off to war to die just a few years earlier. as technology has advanced, women have advanced as well, however now its going way too far and is pretty blatantly anti male in many respects. i view feminism in its modern context as a tool of the social marxists that really isnt doing society a great deal of good at this time. its screwing up gender dynamics and is wrecking women and men for each other. i see it as low frequency, lowest common denominator idiocy, just like a lot of the the race baiting ‘is this racist’ stuff getting around that is being perpetuated pretty much as a distraction, divide and conquer strategy by the power elite. idiots love this kind of bicker and beef… it would be funny if it wasn’t so serious

anyway

I agree with steven friar. gods a maniac

good show… keep making them

By r0Kb3B0p on 2015 07 14 - 21:05:32
From the entry 'Addictions, obsessions, fanaticisms and distractions'.

Really truthfull.

By OZE on 2015 07 07 - 16:56:36
From the entry 'Defending your personal health choices'.

Yeah sure authority aware.

By OZE on 2015 07 07 - 16:28:55
From the entry 'What is the future of Australia?'.

Stay tuned for more rules here as usually is the case!!!

By OZE on 2015 07 07 - 16:21:50
From the entry 'Mass media disinformation and brainwashing dissected'.

Almost two months since the last broadcast! How the hell can you expect people to donate when you don’t broadcast? Looks like the ship of truth has sprung a leak. This broadcast has been part of my life almost since its inception…it is one of the few alternative news sources that hasn’t gone off the deep end, by dilution credible information with crap e.g. Fairdinkum Radio and Info Wars…Pittard started FR with some incredibly interesting material, but then he flipped…Today he sounds like a fundamentalist preacher, the Christian equivalent to a Fanatical Islamist. As an atheist, I think he’s really ###### up a potentially good show. As for Info Wars, all they would have to do to improve is dump Alex Jones, what a shit-for-brains. I reckon Jones and Pittard are allowed to proliferate, because they’re so stupid and harmless. I suppose they have some entertainment value, and along with David Icke are living examples of how low the alternative media has sunk. Truth News Radio is, or should I say was, way ahead of them all ahead of them all in terms of credibility How sad that its come to this.

By Eugene on 2015 06 28 - 17:28:56
From the entry 'Introducing Internet.org: Mark Zuckerberg's free 'private' internet which will soon be rolled out to 4 billion+ people'.

Contrails dissipate quickly whereas chemtrails linger?

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