Wayne Hall said:

(complicated word twisting)

My attitude is in fact very simple: show me a real chemtrail - just don’t point to simple persistant contrails.

Why does this issue matter, contrary to all your suggestions and against all your diverting attempts? Because fanatic believe in “evil spraying” might lead to a tragedy one day.

Some reading suggestion from me for a change:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/travel/jet-pilots-fear-chemtrail-attacks/story-e6frg8rf-1226508708721

Josh, you are the one who posits “evil spraying”. Chemtrails activists posit “spraying”.

You are not doing a favour to your allies who want to normalize this activity and gain public acceptance for it. This is self-evidently independent of the contrails/chemtrails argument.

Chemtrails activists do not accept geoengineering, as a proposal, or as a reality.

Climate change sceptics should be the most opposed to geoengineering, because in terms of their ideology it could serve no authentic purpose. If they are not the most opposed to it, this further undermines its legitimacy.

For those who do not understand that chemtrails exist please look up

http://chemtrailsnorthnz.wordpress.com/2012/10/21/aluminium-strontium-barium-in-brisbane-rainwater/

and when you do you will see just what is in the atmosphere over Brisbane, Australia.

← Chemtrail Sprayed Over Northland On October 20, 2012 At About 10.05 am From Air NZ 99Hamilton’s Anti-Chemtrail/ Geo-engineering Protest Made Impact In Pouring Rain →

Aluminium, Strontium & Barium In Brisbane Rainwater
Posted on October 21, 2012

Well done to Mike Scott of Brisbane, Australia who had a sample of rainwater tested recently. The rain sample was collected in the suburb of Zillmere in Brisbane, around a month ago. The laboratory used for testing is world accredited as the .pdf file of the results shows. He advises that aerosols, otherwise known as chemtrails, had been sprayed every other day for months and there had not been any rain for around 65 days at the time.

Offers Mike Scott: “We collected that tiny sample. The vessel used for collection was also sterile and not deployed until it started to rain.  I work in the sterilization industry so I can guarantee its sterility.  I have no issues with anyone using these results in anyway they see fit, as long as it’s inside the law. I would hate for anyone to get in trouble, but in saying that, this shit has got to stop. I plan on doing a follow-up sample in a few months, so I have something to compare this with, so stay in touch. The more information we get out there the better. Getting the rainwater sample tested was easily the best $200 I have spent in a while. I have tried to give it to the Environment Protection Authority here and they were not interested.  It beggar’s belief. I live around 40 km outside of Brisbane. There is not a cloud in the sky and what should be bright blue is silvery grey.  It’s damn sad.”

See the results below or view in full at the .pdf file at the link.  The results show the rain sample contained a high level of aluminium, plus barium and strontium, which are the hallmarks of geo-engineering.
The sample results also show the rain contained zinc and cadmium, amongst other elements. “Tests” were done on unwitting populations in the UK and the US using zinc cadmium sulfide. Are the “tests” also occurring in the Brisbane region? Why are zinc and cadmium appearing in the rain sample? Your suggestions are welcome.

Related:

The only way aluminium can get into the atmosphere is by man’s hand.

Daniel J Towsey A Truth Soldier posted: ” Aluminium is NOT a Natural Compound Found in the Earth’s Crust by hsaive New post on GeoEngineering Exposed DEBUNKING THE DEBUNKERS – Aluminium is NOT a natural compound found on the earth May 24, 2012,  by Fred Anthony by Fred”
Respond to this post by replying above this line

New post on Chemtrails In Our Skies  

Aluminum is NOT a Natural Compound Found in the Earth’s Crust
by Daniel J Towsey A Truth Soldier

Aluminium is NOT a Natural Compound Found in the Earth’s Crust
by hsaive New post on GeoEngineering Exposed

DEBUNKING THE DEBUNKERS – Aluminium is NOT a natural compound found on the earth
May 24, 2012,  by Fred Anthony
by Fred Anthony on Friday, March 9, 2012 at 12:31pm   original article
I keep seeing this comment in chemtrail debunking websites often quoted by chemtrail doubters:
” Aluminium is the most abundant metallic element in the earth’s crust, about 8% of the ground is aluminium”
“THIS IS A LIE AS I WILL PROVE BELOW
Where does aluminium come from?
Where does fluoride come from?
Aluminium is derived from the ore bauxite. First bauxite is mined from typically shallow deposits, and then it is refined into alumina (alumina hydroxide – Al2O3) using the Bayer process at an alumina refinery. The alumina, a powdery white substance, is then sent to an aluminium smelter where it subjected to electrolysis (Hall/Héroult process) which separates out the aluminium metal.http://aluminium.org.au/FAQRetrieve.aspx?ID=42259
WHERE DOES BAUXITE COME FROM?
Bauxite is a naturally occurring, heterogeneous material composed primarily of one or more aluminium hydroxide minerals, plus various mixtures of silica, iron oxide, titania, aluminosilicate, and other impurities in minor or trace amounts. The principal aluminum hydroxide minerals found in varying proportions with bauxites are gibbsite and the polymorphs boehmite and diaspore. Bauxites are typically classified according to their intended commercial application:  abrasive, cement, chemical, metallurgical, refractory, etc.  The bulk of world bauxite production (approximately 85%) is used as feed for the manufacture of alumina via a wet chemical caustic leach method commonly known as the Bayer process. Subsequently, the majority of the resulting alumina produced from this refining process is in turn employed as the feedstock for the production of aluminium metal by the electrolytic reduction of alumina in a molten bath of natural or synthetic cryolite (Na3AlF6), the Hall-Héroult process.
http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/bauxite/
http://library.thinkquest.org/05aug/00461/bauxite.htm
The Bayer process is the principal industrial means of refining bauxite to produce alumina (aluminium oxide). Bauxite, the most important ore of aluminium, contains only 30–54% aluminium oxide, (alumina), Al2O3, the rest being a mixture of silica, various iron oxides, and titanium dioxide.[1] The aluminium oxide must be purified before it can be refined to aluminium metal.
In the Bayer process, bauxite is digested by washing with a hot solution of sodium hydroxide, NaOH, at 175 °C. This converts the aluminium oxide in the ore to sodium aluminate, NaAl(OH)4, according to the chemical equation:
Al2O3 + 2 NaOH + 3 H2O → 2 NaAl(OH)4
The other components of bauxite do not dissolve. The solution is clarified by filtering off the solid impurities. The mixture of solid impurities is called red mud, and presents a disposal problem. Next, the alkaline solution is cooled, and aluminium hydroxide precipitates as a white, fluffy solid:
NaAl(OH)4 → Al(OH)3 + NaOH
Then, when heated to 980°C (calcined), the aluminium hydroxide decomposes to aluminium oxide, giving off water vapor in the process:
2 Al(OH)3 → Al2O3 + 3 H2O
A large amount of the aluminium oxide so produced is then subsequently smelted in the Hall–Héroult process in order to produce aluminium.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_process
http://www.world-aluminium.org/?pg=85
the Hall–Héroult process
The Hall–Héroult process is the major industrial process for the production of aluminium. It involves dissolving alumina in molten cryolite, and electrolysing the molten salt bath to obtain pure aluminium metal.
Aluminium cannot be produced by the electrolysis of an aluminium salt dissolved in water because of the high reactivity of aluminium with the protons of water and the subsequent formation of hydrogen. As in aqueous solution, protons (H+) are preferentially reduced to atomic hydrogen before Al3+ ions, the reduction of Al3+ is done by electrolysis of a molten aluminium salt. This is a water free medium, and hence, H+ reduction is avoided.

Leonard Clampett quoted:

“Aluminum is NOT a Natural Compound Found in the Earth’s Crust”

Annother blatant misconception. Aluminum is an element. It is almost exclusively found in compounds (minerals) made from multiple elements (Aluminum, Oxygen, Hydrogen, Iron and others).
Aluminum as an element (metal) can only be found natural in acidic environments which are able to crack up the compounds.

You may want to read the first paragraph here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium

Element = stuff consisting of one sort of atoms
Compound = stuff consisting of more than one element

The numerous compounds that include Aluminum are minerals (like Bauxit). The Earth’s crust consists of minerals.

If a water sample contains soil dust or sludge (minerals) which is not filtered out before testing, the plasma-spectrographic analysis will break down all minerals to their elements. These elements show up on the report. The method does not make a difference between elements and molecules.

Of course, a sensational “documentary” like WITWATS does not bother with these petty details. They tested “pond sludge” and compared to clear water ...

Essentially the strategy is the same: the weapons laboratories decide to launch a campaign of global spraying, asserting that the spraying is condensation trails. Monsanto decides to launch genetically modified foods and asserts “substantial equivalence” between genetically modified and non-genetically modified food. A change is introduced along with a campaign of denial that any change has been made.

Wayne Hall said:

“the weapons laboratories decide to launch a campaign of global spraying”

Do you think such a campaign is going on? If so, how do you know?

Leonard Clampett,

here is an addendum regarding Mike Scott’s Brisbane water analysis:

The amount of mineral dust contained in a rain water sample will vary significantly depending on the time of sampling.
If taken at the very beginning of the rain, the amount of dust is high.
If taken a while later, the air will have been cleaned of dust by the rain and the amount in the sample will be low.

If there had been no rain for a long time (around 65 days, as he stated), there was likely a lot of dust flying around.

I think most people have seen what a short and light rain does to a freshly cleaned car ...

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=geo+engineered+frankenstorm+sandy

Leonard Clampett,

just posting random YouTube queries is about as convincing as trumpeting out other people’s misconceptions about chemistry.

Can you put into words what you are believing or suspecting about the claim that Sandy was intentionally manufactured?

Wayne Hall said:

“the weapons laboratories decide to launch a campaign of global spraying”

Do you think such a campaign is going on? If so, how do you know?

I know from the evidence of the senses and the reactions of thinking people http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCedLpEQJ8A&feature=plcp  such as Jean-Marie Matagne.

Wayne Hall said:

“I know from the evidence of the senses and the reactions of thinking people”

These are both very ‘soft’ sources of knowledge. Well, so be it.

What would you categorize as “evidence of the senses”? I mean, specifically?

Wasn’t there a debate between Boswell and Dr. Johnson about Berkeley’s epistemology? Probably if there had been chemtrails in those days Berkeley might have been able to devise arguments even more plausible than those of the most talented chemtrails debunkers of today.

Johnson refuted Berkeley by kicking a stone. People can do the same today just by using their eyes and looking at the sky. That’s what Matagne said, though he was invoking Descartes, being a Frenchman.

The “other people” factor is quite simple. When one is free to talk with intelligent and informed normal people the arguments of idiots and/or the perverse are not going influence one’s judgements.

@ By Josh on 2012 11 03 - 22:57:26

if you pulled youre head out of your arse for a second youd plainly see why leonard and countless others find sandy to border on the un natural, a basic understanding of how natural hurricanes form would also be of benefit to you.

“Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves. ” - Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen,
http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=674

the us military wants to “own the weather” by 2025
http://www.space.com/1725-military-weather.html

maybe they got in early
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO409F.html

superstorm sandy, a once in a generation scenario, if not manufactured, was indeed fortunate for those that may have wanted to remove any left over traces of incriminating evidence after 911.. ( i guess you believe that was the result of rabid muslims with box cutters too eh? ) and for initiating other policies and agendas that may have been a little more difficult without an adequate crisis to facilitate

to disregard information simply because its on youtube.. highlights what a total knobhead you are - stop trying to look clever josh, it doesnt suit you.

Wayne Hall said:

“People can do the same today just by using their eyes and looking at the sky.”

This line is brought up quite a lot from chemtrail believers. Unfortunately, just looking will tell you exactly nothing. You also need knowledge.

So be honest here: if you think “spraying of chemicals” when watching the sky, this is not your own original idea. Someone gave it to you. Did you consider alternative explanations at the time you accepted this idea?

If you didn’t - why is that?

Why did you dismiss atmospheric science? The temperature lapse rate? The multitude of natural cloud formation? Sun halos? And not least: the fact that your senses are fallible by design?

knowledge is of no use without an inquiring mind and intellectual integrity.

noone gave me the idea the twin towers exploded violently, and didnt collapse, i came to that conclusion JUST BY LOOKING!

when people say look up… they presume the person they are telling to look has at least enough smarts to understand that clouds dont naturally form from aircraft that crisscross the sky leaving trails that spread to cover the whole sky in an overcast state..

you presume that people dont take into account atmospheric science, The temperature lapse rate, the multitude of natural cloud formation or the complete lack of… and Sun halos?

and last but not least - the fact that your senses are fallible by design?

well, if someone looks like a dickhead, talks like a dickhead, walks like a dickhead… chances are, hes a dickhead.

not only that dickhead.. but normal contrails dont leave measurable poisonous residue all over the world where the planes are spraying.

stop trying to look clever, it doesnt suit you

Some choice quotes from one of our contributors:

“if someone looks like a dickhead, talks like a dickhead, walks like a dickhead… chances are, hes a dickhead”

“if you pulled youre head out of your arse for a second youd plainly see why leonard and countless others find sandy to border on the un natural”

“to disregard information simply because its on youtube.. highlights what a total knobhead you are”

meagain, here’s a little tip, which your mummy should have given you: we don’t use “naughty” words (eg: arse, knobhead, dickhead) in class - and you are in class now.

Inappropriate, meagain! Be a good boy now and go out and play in the traffic.

Be advised, I will continue taunting you like this until you go away. I won’t waste my time blocking your IP address again, since you have, with the skills of a pubescent car jacker, learned how to circumvent these security measures.

Way to go dude!

You still haven’t answered the question I asked you, Hereward. Do you only talk to people when they start becooming abusive?

Josh the relevant experience that I drew on when I first reacted to the sight of chemtrails over Aegina was over ten years in the anti-nuclear movement, some knowledge of the doings of the US weapons laboratories and the politics of the anti-nuclear movements and the Greens. One writer that influenced me very much was Edward Thompson and his writings on what he called “exterminism”.

http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/waynehall.html