meagain, here’s a little tip, which your mummy should have given you: we don’t use “naughty” words (eg: arse, knobhead, dickhead) in class - and you are in class now.

Inappropriate, meagain! Be a good boy now and go out and play in the traffic.

Be advised, I will continue taunting you like this until you go away. I won’t waste my time blocking your IP address again, since you have, with the skills of a pubescent car jacker, learned how to circumvent these security measures.

Way to go dude!

one of your contributors… thats right .. of how many? six?

lol! who put your batteries back in? you crawled out from under your rock to admonish me for a little colourful language did you? ohh noes!
this is australia - toughen up and stop pretending anything ive said is something you dont hear while youre in the playground every day.

lets see how fast you crawl back under again when i ask you to put up one piece of evidence that shows beyond all reasonable doubt that flight 77 hit the pentagon you lying hypocrite!

heres a tip… this aint class and you aint a teacher.. but i could give you some lessons in website security - truth is, you WILL try and block me again, thats the sort of lying scum you are, but the fact of the matter is, you CANT.

be advised, im not going away while you keep spreading bullshit under the banner of truth news, so if you really are not going to block me, or delete my comments as you have in the past for simply calling you on your BS ( i keep copies of everything now because of your form ) then youre in for the long haul with your pathetic taunting.. lol.. i fart in your general direction.. taunt away mummys boy!

Seems like a waste of time viewing or contributing to this “discussion”.

“Seems like a waste of time viewing or contributing to this ‘discussion’.”

I tend to think otherwise. This thread contains some very interesting discussions.

quite interesting indeed how the unqualified josh continues to argue against man-made clouds, impacts on natural resources, persistent jet contrail pictures, climate change, and how man-made clouds exacerbate global warming.. despite all the evidence to the contrary given to him in this thread, and how he asserts as if he is the final authority on the matter that the millions of concerned people worldwide are just imagining things because they have unreliable senses.  ( but he doesnt )

also interesting is why he spends such an inordinate amount of his time to against something he apparently doesnt believe in.. maybe he spends an equal amount of time trying to quash the easter bunny myth on other forums..  who knows.. at least there hed have more of a chance of making a valid argument..

might even start to look clever..  unless of course, he actually believes in the easter bunny.

I hold an ATPL (Airline Transport Pilot Licence) Australia ARN 018833, and also pilot licences from Fiji (ATPL) Papua New Guinea (ATPL) Canada (SCPL - Senior Commercial Pilot Licence). I have 14,000 hours logged flying domestically and internationally since 1964. I’ve been around the sun 68 times. For those who have not yet visited http://www.bluenomore.com/ and do not believe chemtrails are being sprayed across the planet and have been since circa 1995 at least, I suggest you could visit that web-site and perhaps see some evidence.

For those who do not believe that September 11 2001 was an inside job by the military industrial complex, perhaps a viewing of the 4.5 hour video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyn73ARRKls&feature=related could give you some insight.

For those who would have this discussion shut down it would seem apparent that they do not believe in open discussion or a smidgeon of free speech. They must be afraid of something. The truth always prevails no matter how much is attempted to hide it.

Leonard Clampett,

I don’t question your flight experience.

However, I’m sure you acknowledge that contrails can and do persist if the conditions are right.

So here is the simple question:
Can you see which trail is a chemtrail? If so, how do you know it?

Leonard Clampett,

I don’t question your flight experience.

However, I’m sure you acknowledge that contrails can and do persist if the conditions are right.

So here is the simple question:
Can you see which trail is a chemtrail? If so, how do you know it?

and lumpen wonder why i get cranky and complain for calling a spade a spade

look up idiot - simple as that ..then go to http://www.bluenomore.com/

Very simple Josh. It is called experience over 50 years of observation. Contrails do not spread and cause cloud. They never have and the science is not difficult to follow. When an aircraft is moving through an air mass, and there are various air masses abounding, each with differing moisture content and temperatures, each abutting others, if there is no cloud it means that the ambient conditions are not suitable for the formation of cloud. If there is no cloud, as on a clear winter day, it is the artificiality of the introduction of the exhaust gas emissions that cause the fog/cloud known as a contrail (condensation trail). Cloud at ground level is called fog and fog at high altitude is called cloud. They are one and the same. As exhaust emissions mix with the surrounding air their moisture is absorbed by the less moist surrounding air. All that happens when air is taken through an engine, and it may be a piston or turbine engine, the moisture in that parcel of air is heated and turns to steam, it is exhausted and condenses/cools to the temperature of the air surrounding the exhaust flow and then is mixed with it causing the contrail to dissipate. If the ambient conditions were such that cloud formation was imminent, the minor alteration of an aircraft passing through could not possibly cause cloud. Cloud will only form when conditions are right. If there was cloud there will not be any contrail. Follow one of your colleagues through clear dry air and moisture laden air and you will see what I mean.

What must be assessed is why is it that we get “trails” in summer when the air is very moist at altitude yet the temperature is not conducive to contrail formation. We get chemtrails in front of moving cloud masses that normally produce rain in the wet season on the east of Australia and no rain is forthcoming. Farmers all over the region report the same problem. Normal seasonal weather is changed by the activities of aircraft movement that is not in line with airways and I have observed this activity myself. On top of this, farmers in areas where there is a lot of chemtrail activity report greater than normal concentrations of metals in their soil, which is killing of the micro flora and fauna in the soil, and these little critters are not just essential, but vital for growing food, which is what th people n the cities need but do not understand as they sit in their little castles on their little patch of ground where they don’t seem to be able to grow enough to feed themselves. Farmer are needed.

The still photograph at the top of this page tells me quite simply that the ambient conditions when the photograph was taken were such that it was relatively still in the upper atmosphere and that the temperature was not sufficiently low enough, or the humidity of the time was not high enough, for cloud to form and nothing more. Te ambient conditions were obviously close to required but not in fact.

Quite some years ago NASA satellite photographs clearly showed patterns of chemtrails hundreds of nautical miles in length, flown in elongated rectangular patterns north-/south in the eastern Pacific Ocean off the north American continent which had been laid down with the prevailing westerly wind to be allowed to drift across the American continent with the spray aircraft being unseen so far out to sea. I believe the manoeuvres were not military training because such as sweeps to find submarines are not required to be flown over vast distances because location within closer parameters is quite easy.

youre too kind leonard..

you give josh way more respect and show way more patience than he deserves

if i came across him in the pub id end up punching him in the throat.. i dont suffer fools easily…

forgive me if ive taken anything away from the comprehensive coherent arguments of yourself and wayne.. in exposing the fundamentals flaws in the reasoning of josh, fenton et al;

but strike me blue if i dont see red ... when anyone is such a dickhead

After a lot of arguing the Citizens’ Open Assembly of Aegina in Greece agreed last night to vote on 18th November on whether they would support the Protest Letter of Citizens of Attica on the Chemical Aerial Spraying.                                                                                      This is the text of the letter: LETTER OF PROTEST FROM THE RESIDENTS OF ATTICA

To:
1) Minister of National Defence Mr. Panos Panagiotopoulos

2) Head of the General Staff Mr. Michael Kostarakos

cc.

1) Head of the Army General Staff Mr. Konstantinos Ginis,

2) Head of the Air Force General Staff Mr. Antonis Tsantirakis,

3) Head of the Navy General Staff Mr. Kosmas Christidis,

4) Every other authority, political parties, professional associations, mass media, citizens

Through this document, which we sign in the attached pages, we inform you of the following:

We protest:

1) The continual chemical spraying that has been taking place systematically in the Greek skies in recent years. Particularly in the last two weeks in Attica, and for the last month throughout Greece, aircraft have been in operation relentlessly and non-stop, leaving behind white trails that spread out in the sky, forming artificial clouds which at some point must reach the ground, with unknown consequences for human health and the environment. These aircraft, whether civilian or military but without identifying markings, go back and forth over the capital and other densely populated areas of Greece, without anybody being able to provide clear information on their flight paths.

2) The dishonest statements by the Air Force, the Civil Aviation Authority and all implicated official bodies, whose only purpose is conceal the existence this global phenomenon and mislead citizens. The chemical spraying is a gigantic worldwide operation aimed at modifying, but also weaponizing, the weather and climate, without taking the slightest account either of the human factor or of the welfare of the planet.

We require:

1. Full, honest and responsible provision of information on this global spraying. Greek citizens, and by extension all the people of this world have every right to know How, What, Why and By Whom this programme is being conducted and what effects it is having on our health. Any reiteration of the ridiculous justifications for the phenomenon that are being given (that what we are seeing is “ice crystals” or “the effects of atmospheric moisture”) will be regarded de facto as perpetuation of the concealment and of the crass derogation of our intelligence, not to mention contradiction of the laws of logic and of physics.

2. Protection of our lives by the health authorities of the state. The findings from analysis of rainwater, food and blood from people in various parts of the world are shocking.

3. Future protection from our Air Force, so that we may feel, and be confident, that it is the guardian of Greek air space and is defending the country’s citizens from malicious actions aimed at harming the country’s citizens, whether directly or indirectly.

This document is being submitted to the Ministry of National Defence and to every other authority we believe should know of our protest.

The signatories:

—————————————

Leave a comment in Greek or English at the Facebook group of the Citizens’ Open Assembly of Aegina in solidarity with the members of the Assembly who support the Protest Letter of Citizens of Attica and intend to vote in favour of supporting it on 18th November.  https://www.facebook.com/groups/374878652548630/permalink/445472938822534/#!/groups/183669585020476/permalink/424326660954766/

if i came across him in the pub id end up punching him in the throat..

In the throat, really? So you admit to the urge to resort to violence just because somebody disagrees with you?

You can’t even make the dubious claim of censorship here, as you have threatened a fellow poster on this site who has not restricted you in any way.

I see from my e-mail that Hereward’s original posting continued as follows:

.....You are clearly mentally ill.

I have already banned him previously but he knows how to spoof IP addresses
so there’s not alot I can do.

He had second thoughts about this continuation, because each of these three sentences is stigmatizing:  “You are clearly mentally ill” seems like the remark of the editor of British Tory rag of the mid-to-late twentieth century, “Spectator”, or “Punch”, even.

The appeal to the “other chemtrail propenents who purport to be sober-minded” to “pull the guy into line” testifies to an assumption, which on reflection might seem embarrassing, that the “sober-mindedness” of others is available to help with the policing of any authority structure at all, whether or not the would-be authority has done anything to inspire the sought-after loyalty. Having maintained “freedom of speech” could be the basis of an appeal of this kind, but it is not a value that has much prestige for me because nobody who has anything worth saying has to appeal to his rights to freedom of speech to get people paying attention. “Freedom of speech” is the resort of a scoundrel.

The confession that “there is not a lot I can do” is also no way of acquiring kudos, or even sympathy, unless it has already been secured in some other way.

Isn’t it a little too much like the wicked outside world in microcosm: provoke, provoke, provoke and then feign horror when the recipient of the provocation turns nasty.

What would happen if you changed your line on “chemtrails” Hereward? Would some of your backers withdraw their support? Is the present stance just going to continue forever and ever amen?

Leonard Clampett said:
“Contrails do not spread and cause cloud.”

I can follow your logical reasoning and it would indeed be correct - were it not for the phenomenon of supersaturation relative to ice.

There may be supercooled water droplets present that only need a condensation nucleus to freeze. See the Wikipedia entry about cloud physics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_physics#Supersaturation

What a jet exhaust will bring into such an environment is fine soot and more water vapor (we have discussed that one before) - just what the contrail cloud needs to be created, to stay around or even grow.

Add a bit of shear winds and the contrail may be stretched wide.

Here is an abstract of a paper about contrail cirrus:
http://www.isac.cnr.it/wavacs/sites/default/files/Bock_Lisa.pdf

Hereward Fenton said:

“Inappropriate, meagain!”

My point of view: I don’t mind. I have no problem with just ignoring the insulting posts. They are but an expression of insecurity (regarding the subject of discussion or even the own personality).

However, I wonder if he/she is aware of the disservice he/she is providing to the chemtrail movement. Who is supposed to take them seriously with a “promoter” like this ?

Wayne Hall said:

“provoke, provoke, provoke and then feign horror when the recipient of the provocation turns nasty.”

What is the provocation here? Disagreeing with a conspiracy theory?

Discussing the facts?

This should be answered by person who was provoked. In the meantime we can continue to use this forum as a notice board.

No, Wayne Hall,

the question about what the alleged provokation is should be answered by the person who brought up the word and made the claim.

Can you point me to the page where I have provoked, provoked, provoked Skywatcher/Meagain?

Can you? If not, why did you speak of provokation?

In the throat, really? So you admit to the urge to resort to violence just because somebody disagrees with you?

in context..

youre too kind leonard..

you give josh way more respect and show way more patience than he deserves

if i came across him in the pub id end up punching him in the throat.. i dont suffer fools easily…

you moron..  its a figure of speech.. not meant literally but an expression of the level of respect i give josh for trying to tell me what im seeing with my own eyes is something else. as a direct opposite to the respect given to him by leonard..  its like saying i wouldnt piddle on him if he was on fire. you never heard that one either i suppose..

and its not for disagreeing with me that i call out josh. hes a pretentious know-all..  it would be different if he could actually back what he says up with something, and answer why he spends so much effort trying to persuade people they are concerned about nothing, despite all the evidence.. but like you and your lies re flight 77.. you aint got diddly squat. he doesnt ignore me because hes so outraged that i use the odd curse here or there, its because he doesnt want to answer.

grow up. stop pretending you never swear. all im doing is telling it like it is.. you are a liar,

you say ... “• The Pentagon was hit by a third plane.
We can all agree with the mainstream account up to this point… ”

really we can all agree can we? no we bloody well cant! you just pulled that little nugget straight out your ... bottom .

i see you still havnt posted any evidence to support that either. why not? so if you have no evidence that proves your position on chemtrails/contrails - or flight 77, beyond all reasonable doubt, then its unreasonable that you pretend that people with legitimate concerns have nothing to worry about, in short, youre calling us fools for thinking differently than you.

josh is flatout peddling garbage.. why? who knows.. but if he thinks he can tell me an apple is an orange, then hes an idiot. thats just the way it is, and if he wants to treat people here with contempt by dismissing all their concerns despite all the evidence, then im going to call him out on it, because its the right thing to do.

and as far as censorship goes..  youd do it in a heartbeat if you could.. as you have previously. yes.. i changed ip… because you deleted my perfectly respectful posts and insulted me.. you call my efforts to get around your banning me ..what? prepubescent? lol..  well if thats all it takes to get around it.. what else should i do?

i make a habit of treating people how they treat me. tell me why i should be respectful to you after what you did.. or to josh, for treating people like idiots..  maybe he doesnt swear, but telling people they are not seeing what they are seeing, because senses are not infallible, is not respectful, nor is pretending he is some sort of authority on the subject and his unqualified opinion trumps that of any one elses.

dont like being called an idiot? stop being and idiot.

“However, I wonder if he/she is aware of the disservice he/she is providing to the chemtrail movement. Who is supposed to take them seriously with a “promoter” like this ?”

i only speak for myself and have never claimed otherwise. as far as being taken seriously, all people need do to see for themselves is look up.. you should try it some time.

all i have promoted, is the fact that i have witnessed, on many occasions, a clear blue sky, turn totally white, purely from whatever is coming out of aircraft flying over me..

you are telling me that is perfectly normal. well who the hell are you to tell me anything? what are your qualifications? im not even asking for your unqualified opinion! i dont care what you think… i KNOW what im seeing is not normal.

unless you can prove your position beyond all reasonable doubt - then you really have nothing to say that anyone wants to hear, because people have a right to ask questions regarding legitimate valid concerns, but as you are an unqualified nobody, no one is asking you anything

My point of view: I don’t mind. I have no problem with just ignoring the insulting posts.

how magnanimous

I suspect you won’t get any sensible reply from Wayne Hall. I also conclude from some of his postings that he is feeling targeted which adds an unhealthy aspect to his behaviour. Maybe he is best left alone.

a little hypocritical to be calling other people insulting eh josh?